Actually, I wasn't sure whether you were going to ask me or Gil that question.
At any rate, just on that, I think we have to first ask what is the appropriate cost of producing when we get to bitumen and upgrading, then including the social costs, which would include environmental costs.
The difficulty—and this is where I strongly disagree with Gil—is that the first element is getting to the heavy oil and the cost of producing heavy oil. There is an upgrading cost that will then add to the cost of oil. The problem is that we may want to sell refined product abroad, but there may not be a market if it's too expensive, because the costs are higher in Canada.
That goes back to the issue of what's called comparative advantage. The comparative advantage may be that sometimes you're better off to actually produce the bitumen as opposed to going to a higher level because of the additional costs that would be incurred here. Comparative advantage means better trade and a lot of the gains to trade. I'm sure one could go into that.
In terms of the environmental costs, I've been a strong proponent of these over the years, that it's appropriate to price these environmental costs, and that it would be a cost that would be included. The difficulty, of course, is that if your competitors don't price that, then that creates an issue that has to be dealt with, which is a constraint. But if everybody were appropriately costing that internationally, then that wouldn't necessarily impact on the choice between upgrading or not upgrading, etc., because you've already done that appropriate social costing in the price of oil.
In my view, you do raise a very important issue. That is, if we decide to do more upgrading in Canada, we will be counted to have more GHG emissions. Of course, even though from a world perspective it doesn't matter—from a world point of view, it doesn't matter whether GHG emissions occur in the United States or Asia or Canada—when we start getting into the politics of it, of course we're going to saying that we can't hit our targets as quickly, which means we're going to have to do other things in order to make up and get to the targets we want to get to.