Evidence of meeting #12 for Natural Resources in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was amendments.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Acting Director General, Workplace Directorate, Labour Program, Department of Employment and Social Development
This amendment does two things. It coordinates with Bill C-4, but it also includes a consequential amendment to the Canada Labour Code to include the ability for delegated officials to make representation at civil and administrative hearings.
Liberal
Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS
I'm just not sure why you really need subclause 120(1) if it's already received royal assent. Clearly, the rest of it, subsections 120(2) and (3), is going to apply because it has received royal assent.
However, I think it probably still works. It's not going to cause this section not to work. It just doesn't seem to be a logical way to do it.
I have another question. We are amending the Canada Labour Code, and just so I understand it, the minister we're referring to in proposed subsections 144(1) and 144(1.1) would be the Minister of Labour of Canada, right?
Acting Director General, Workplace Directorate, Labour Program, Department of Employment and Social Development
Yes, the Minister of Labour.
Liberal
Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS
Proposed subsection 144(1) basically says that unless the minister gives written permission, departmental officials wouldn't have to give testimony with regard to information they've obtained in exercising their powers, which I presume includes investigations and so forth.
I don't quite understand what kind of information they would not have to give testimony about. Do you have any idea?
Acting Director General, Workplace Directorate, Labour Program, Department of Employment and Social Development
Proposed subsection 144(1.1) is the change in Bill C-4. That's the clause referred to as a result of Bill C-4. So the change that we're referring to is to provide officers the ability to make representation at other types of administrative hearings. That could include arbitration hearings, at which they are not permitted to make representation currently.
Liberal
Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS
Proposed subsection 144(1.1) basically says that the minister is not required to give testimony, except in certain circumstances. Right? Then proposed subsection 144(1), what I was asking about, basically says that her delegated officials or those who have assisted those officials can't be required to give testimony unless the minister gives written permission.
Acting Director General, Workplace Directorate, Labour Program, Department of Employment and Social Development
The change that's being proposed is under 144(1.1) of the Canada Labour Code, which now reads:
The Minister shall not be required to give testimony in a civil suit with regard to information obtained in the exercise of powers or the performance of duties or functions the Minister is authorized to exercise or perform under this Part
—which is part 2 of the Canada Labour Code—
except for those powers, duties or functions that shall not be the subject of an agreement entered into under subsection 140(2).
Liberal
Geoff Regan Liberal Halifax West, NS
I see. In other words, anything under this, she doesn't have to give testimony in relation to. Right? But she may have to....
Acting Director General, Workplace Directorate, Labour Program, Department of Employment and Social Development
Only with regard to information obtained in the exercise of powers and performance of duties under this part of the code.
NDP
Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
I remain troubled by this. Essentially what proposed subsection 144(1) provides is that it allows for political interference in deciding whether administrative officers can give testimony.
Acting Director General, Workplace Directorate, Labour Program, Department of Employment and Social Development
No. Right now officers are required to receive approval of the minister to make representation.
Acting Director General, Workplace Directorate, Labour Program, Department of Employment and Social Development
They can only make representation in civil proceedings. We want to expand that to include administrative proceedings as well.
NDP
Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
Right, but what this provision provides for is.... None of those officers under this new legislation can testify in an administrative proceeding unless the minister gives approval. That's a political decision. That's my understanding of what.... Is this something that exists in other federal legislation?
Acting Director General, Workplace Directorate, Labour Program, Department of Employment and Social Development
Right now the officers cannot give any testimony in any civil proceeding unless they receive ministerial consent or approval. That's the only type of proceeding they can give testimony at.
NDP
Linda Duncan NDP Edmonton Strathcona, AB
Are you aware of any other provision in federal law where similar officers cannot give testimony in the delivery of their duties unless they get ministerial approval?
Acting Director General, Workplace Directorate, Labour Program, Department of Employment and Social Development
I can't speak to other regulatory bodies.
Acting Director General, Workplace Directorate, Labour Program, Department of Employment and Social Development
The change is to expand it from just civil to civil and administrative, so it's making it broader.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
Ms. Duncan, this committee can't deal with other legislation. This is an expansion. As long as you understand that it's actually expanding testimony—you've heard the explanation—to administrative hearings.
NDP