Natural Resources Committee on Feb. 27th, 2014

[Jay Khosla]

Maybe we'll start with a few statistics that could be helpful. In New Brunswick, there was $19 million GDP in 2011 in direct economic benefits of the oil sands; Quebec, $317 million in direct economic benefits of the oil sands.

To come back to the question, though, more broadly it's important to note that certain provinces also have their own resources when it comes to oil and gas. I want to thank you for highlighting those two provinces in particular because while they do play in the oil sands from a manufacturing side, from an induced jobs aspect, from a support capacity in terms of Alberta directly, they also do have their own set of resources and we are starting to hear from those provinces as to the potential of developing their oil and gas reserves. These are early days with respect to that.

[Bradley Trost, Conservative, Saskatoon—Humboldt, SK]

What is the potential in those two provinces?

[Jay Khosla]

I'm going to ask Jeff to jump in but certainly there are significant reserves sitting in Quebec and in New Brunswick. At the end of the day....

I wanted to come back to the final point which is this. I think folks are learning from the Newfoundland experience a little bit in this regard on the east coast and understanding that these can have significant, positive impacts on the economy.

Jeff or Terry, did you want to come back on the specifics of the reserves themselves?

[Jeff Labonté]

Maybe I'll start, my colleague can join me. If one starts with Quebec, certainly one has to recognize first that jurisdictionally it's the province that sets the pace for development of oil and gas resources. The exception to that is the combination of shared management that the federal government and provinces pursue for the offshore. So in Quebec, the federal government signed an accord with the Province of Quebec to pursue shared management of offshore resources in the Gulf of the St. Lawrence, for example. We're actively developing the frameworks to achieve that objective with the province. The reserves expected there are in the billions of barrels of crude oil and several trillion cubic feet of gas.

[Bradley Trost, Conservative, Saskatoon—Humboldt, SK]

Quebec has the potential for billions of barrels of oil—

[Jeff Labonté]

Correct.

[Bradley Trost, Conservative, Saskatoon—Humboldt, SK]

—and trillions of cubic feet in gas.

[Jeff Labonté]

Correct. I think the estimates...our geological survey...I could get you the exact number with the study, but certainly I'll give you the rough, grosso modo....

In the Gulf of St. Lawrence, for the area that falls within the administration of a shared management regime between Canada and Quebec, I think it was in the area of two billion barrels of oil in the offshore, not including Anticosti Island. I think five billion barrels are expected in the Anticosti Island onshore. As well, the trillions of cubic feet of gas was in the neighbourhood of eight or nine trillion cubic feet, but definitely in the scope of a substantial amount of gas.

In the offshore area there is opportunity, and certainly there is an interest in making sure the frameworks are in place to allow decision-making to occur, that the environment can be assessed, and that a regulatory regime—

[Bradley Trost, Conservative, Saskatoon—Humboldt, SK]

New Brunswick, before Mr. Benoit cuts you off....

[Jeff Labonté]

In New Brunswick, the resource potential in the offshore is a little less understood, but certainly there is offshore nearshore gas in the New Brunswick example.

Of course both provinces have significant shale resources, and both provinces are looking at that from a regulatory point of view and from the point of view of if they should wish to develop those resources. Both have experienced exploratory drilling. In one case the potential for commercial proved fairly productive, and in the other case it's still being explored how that could be best tapped and optimized.

Not to suggest that's a known go-forward, but that's certainly something both provinces are looking at, which has potential again to essentially transform the way those provinces produce energy, not just from hydroelectricity and from renewables but from oil and gas.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Thank you.

Thank you, Mr. Trost.

Mr. Julian, you have up to five minutes.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Thanks, Mr. Trost. I think this is right on the money, talking about the Canadian energy industry as a whole. I agree with Mr. Regan that really what we should be looking at is a broader-based study, and I think you're helping to change the committee direction in that regard. That's very helpful.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

We have a point of order from Ms. Crockatt.

[Joan Crockatt, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Just before we go too far down on that track, Mr. Julian, I just want to clarify and if we need further clarification, I think we can do that by taking time out without the witnesses here.

But I think the intention very much with this study was that there is a focus on natural gas and the spinoffs. So when we are talking about the oil and gas in brackets, it is that the spinoffs and the benefits that we are talking about will not exclusively be in the oil and gas sector. That was very much the intention when I put forward the motion.

We might need further discussion on that, just so we don't redefine the study as we're going along here.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

On the point of order, Mr. Chair....

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Mr. Regan.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Mr. Chair, looking at the agenda, the orders of the day, I assume that these orders of the day on this agenda come out with your approval, Mr. Chair, and it reads, “Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), study of cross-Canada benefits of developing the oil and gas industries”.

If that's not accurate, perhaps it should be changed for future meetings.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

But that is what the study is about. The focus is to be on oil and gas.

Yes, Ms. Block.

[Kelly Block, Conservative, Saskatoon—Rosetown—Biggar, SK]

On that point of order, Mr. Chair, I would just point out that we do seem to have two different titles, one from the Library of Parliament and one on the orders of the day. The orders of the day indicate, “cross-Canada benefits of developing the oil and gas industries”, and what has been prepared for us by the Library reads, “Study on the Benefits of Canada's Energy Sector (Oil and Gas)”.

We probably should ensure that we are stating the same thing consistently throughout the material we are distributing.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Yes, I think in both cases the focus is on oil and gas. That's what this study is about. That's what we agreed to do. No matter how it's written, that's the intent of the study, clearly.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

On a point of order....

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

I'll go to Mr. Julian, then Ms. Duncan.

[Peter Julian, NDP, Burnaby—New Westminster, BC]

On the point of order—and I hope the clock is stopped, Mr. Chair—it's very clear, particularly when you look at the French version of the study.

The motion asks “that the Committee undertake a study on the benefits”. There are benefits but there are also consequences attached to developing the energy industry across Canada. Of course, the focus will be on the oil and gas industry, but the study will not be limited to just that. In the eyes of the public, the study is supposed to look at both the pros and cons of developing the energy industry. The motion we have passed is quite clear in that sense.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Mr. Regan.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

The difficulty here, it seems to me, is that as I mentioned earlier, the map shows nuclear, tidal, hydroelectric, coal, thermal electric facilities. What we're essentially saying by this focus is that these areas are not important to Canadians. It seems to me that this highlights how this ought to be a broader study. In fact the presentation today by the officials highlights how this should be a broader study than just one sector of the energy sector.