I can only support what you were saying, Ms. Duncan.
What I should add is that the price policy in Ukraine has been totally out of whack. Ukraine last year paid $53 for 1,000 cubic metres of gas. That was produced in Ukraine by a state company, while it imported gas for slightly over $400 per 1,000 cubic metres from Russia. This is with our transport under VAT. That means Ukraine paid only one-eighth as much for domestic production.
The idea was that this should be used for domestic consumption. The gas price in Ukraine has only been one-sixth, 15%, of the cost recovery for gas. Now it will go up to something like 23% of a cost recovery, which is still far too little, and the idea is that it will go up. You wonder, why this is. Well, it's because somebody takes about half of the domestically produced gas, say, nine billion cubic metres is my assessment, and resells it. This was somebody very close to President Yanukovych, or possibly Yanukovych himself who was in this business.
If we do the simple calculation, that was about a $3 billion cost. This is the reason nobody has worked on energy efficiency, because somebody higher up all along has been making money on it. All the big fortunes in the 1990s in Ukraine were made on gas. In reality, Ukraine probably has 20 billionaires, and most of those billionaires have made their money on this kind of gas trade which has moved among different people.
In order to get rid of this corrupt dealing, one needs to increase the gas price all the way so that there's no difference between cost recovery prices and the prices at which gas is actually sold, both for production and consumption. Then you get incentives to save energy, and then all the techniques become relevant. Of course, Canada has a lot to offer in this regard, and this can be done in so many ways, but first the prices must get right.
Thank you.