Evidence of meeting #43 for Natural Resources in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was winter.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Terence Hubbard  Director General, Petroleum Resources Branch, Energy Sector, Department of Natural Resources
Martine Dagenais  Associate Deputy Commissioner, Economic Policy and Enforcement, Competition Bureau
Greg Lang  Senior Competition Officer, Competition Bureau
Darren Christie  Director, Energy Markets Team and Acting Director, Energy Trade Team, National Energy Board
Shelley Milutinovic  Chief Economist, National Energy Board
Guy Marchand  President and Chief Executive Officer, Budget Propane 1998 Inc., and Chair of the Board of Directors, Canadian Propane Association
Andrea Labelle  General Manager, Canadian Propane Association
Michel Deslauriers  Director General, Association québécoise du propane

12:30 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Budget Propane 1998 Inc., and Chair of the Board of Directors, Canadian Propane Association

Guy Marchand

All I can say is that probably we are seeing across Canada this year an extreme increase in tertiary storage, both at the distribution level and at the consumer level. It's happening in the U.S. also, as tank manufacturers on both sides are saying the same thing. It's a banner year for them. They're making storage tanks for consumers and distributors more than ever.

I guess industry has learned the lesson all over North America. Probably the impact will have served to let people learn, not only the distributors but also the consumers who didn't have enough storage or didn't want too much storage outside their homes because there is a lot of money tied in. They've realized that whether they use oil, electric, or propane, they need that extra storage.

12:30 p.m.

Conservative

Ryan Leef Conservative Yukon, YT

So you're seeing a bit of this issue already being resolved at a bunch of different levels, and now your ultimate recommendation is for the government to support this so that we can complement the work that's being done by consumers and industry and associations.

One part was to collect statistics. Mr. Regan touched on this a bit. Could you expand now on the gaps in the statistics that you have identified? What exactly are you recommending here that you can expand on for us, in terms of what the statistics would do for you?

12:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

Make a very brief answer, please.

December 9th, 2014 / 12:30 p.m.

General Manager, Canadian Propane Association

Andrea Labelle

It will be.

I'd have to get back to you. I'd have to do a complete comparison and have my research person take a look at that. It's always challenging, when I'm asking for a number for a presentation, that we can't get it, we don't have it, it's not available.

12:30 p.m.

Conservative

The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit

Thank you, Mr. Leef.

Monsieur Lauzon, go ahead, please.

12:30 p.m.

Conservative

Guy Lauzon Conservative Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My thanks to our guests for participating in this morning's meeting.

I have several questions.

Mr. Deslauriers, you said that propane combustion was cleaner than that of natural gas. Is that correct?

12:30 p.m.

Director General, Association québécoise du propane

Michel Deslauriers

No. However, its combustion is cleaner than that of oil, heating oil, and it emits less methane into the air than natural gaz.

12:30 p.m.

Conservative

Guy Lauzon Conservative Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON

Okay. Is the difference significant?

12:30 p.m.

Director General, Association québécoise du propane

Michel Deslauriers

In terms of methane, it is; the difference is significant in terms of greenhouse gas emissions.

12:30 p.m.

Conservative

Guy Lauzon Conservative Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON

Mr. Marchand, I think you said that propane is sold internationally, in Texas.

12:30 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Budget Propane 1998 Inc., and Chair of the Board of Directors, Canadian Propane Association

12:30 p.m.

Conservative

Guy Lauzon Conservative Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON

This is like any other commodity?

12:30 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Budget Propane 1998 Inc., and Chair of the Board of Directors, Canadian Propane Association

Guy Marchand

It is a commodity, yes.

12:35 p.m.

Conservative

Guy Lauzon Conservative Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON

Okay. So what is the difference between the price market spot today and what it was last year at this time?

12:35 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Budget Propane 1998 Inc., and Chair of the Board of Directors, Canadian Propane Association

Guy Marchand

I could not speculate on this. All I can tell you is that the commodity is traded at Mont Belvieu, as there's a gasoline hub in New York, as there's a natural gas hub down in.... So from there, there's a number of factors such as transportation to the outskirts and then the distribution network.

12:35 p.m.

Conservative

Guy Lauzon Conservative Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON

Do you think there was maybe some money made in speculation last year?

12:35 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Budget Propane 1998 Inc., and Chair of the Board of Directors, Canadian Propane Association

Guy Marchand

This is very hypothetical. I could not speculate on any of this at all.

12:35 p.m.

Conservative

Guy Lauzon Conservative Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON

Somebody mentioned the drying of the crops. Everybody knows it was a wet fall last year in Canada and in the United States. That was expected. To say that was a shock that there was going to be a lot of drying, I'm not so sure that I would agree with that. I'm a layman and I understood that it was a wet fall.

12:35 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Budget Propane 1998 Inc., and Chair of the Board of Directors, Canadian Propane Association

Guy Marchand

Probably I can tell you that the U.S. have got a strange way every year to report their agricultural.... In the summer of 2013, the U.S. reported a large crop, very humid, very everything, and, yes indeed, it was. We get into the summer of 2014 and again, we got the same message: even larger acreage, more acreage, probably more humid. Then we go through the season, and nothing at all. The U.S. has been known historically to do that kind of funny reporting, so it plays tricks on us.

12:35 p.m.

Conservative

Guy Lauzon Conservative Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON

I'm going to keep going here quickly.

For the last quarter of 2013 and the first quarter of 2014, what kind of profits did the industry report?

12:35 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Budget Propane 1998 Inc., and Chair of the Board of Directors, Canadian Propane Association

Guy Marchand

There are only three companies that are publicly traded, to my knowledge: Superior Propane, Canwest, and Parkland. All of the other ones are privately held, so I could not tell you.

12:35 p.m.

Conservative

Guy Lauzon Conservative Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON

You don't know if they're substantial or not, those three that you mentioned?

12:35 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Budget Propane 1998 Inc., and Chair of the Board of Directors, Canadian Propane Association

Guy Marchand

Exactly. They're the only ones, those three.

12:35 p.m.

Conservative

Guy Lauzon Conservative Stormont—Dundas—South Glengarry, ON

Because of the price, were the profits elevated considerably?

12:35 p.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Budget Propane 1998 Inc., and Chair of the Board of Directors, Canadian Propane Association

Guy Marchand

I only read my own. I don't play a lot into shares.