Evidence of meeting #57 for Natural Resources in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was make.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:20 p.m.
President and CEO, MLTC Resource Development LP
Yes, it's a Saskatchewan-specific program. I know that other provinces have looked at it. It's been very successful.
There are some models in Alberta and B.C. that we're looking at as well that are specific to forestry, but we really like Northern Career quest. It's great.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Joan Crockatt Conservative Calgary Centre, AB
Thank you.
Dr. Sain, I wonder if I could ask you about the following. We had a tiny conversation just leading up to this when you were saying, “Oh, we could have some products from Toronto being used in collaboration with Alberta”. We're going to need a lot of help in Alberta in the next while because of low oil prices, of course.
4:25 p.m.
Prof. Mohini Mohan Sain
Right.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Joan Crockatt Conservative Calgary Centre, AB
I wonder if you could just talk a little bit about the federal programs you've accessed, what has worked, and what you see in the future being some best practices or some newer opportunities.
4:25 p.m.
Prof. Mohini Mohan Sain
First, I think that Alberta has huge forest resources and because of the revenue generated by the oil sands somehow it has not been as much of a revenue-generating sector for Alberta for a long time. This is the time, I think, where companies like Alpac have recently changed, as well as many other smaller companies, in trying to introduce many forms of new technology, like nanocellulose, lignin dried materials, and fibrous automotive applications, and by recommissioning forests inside oil sands industry lands.
It's a huge opportunity for Alberta. Even in mining you have land that needs to be reclaimed. Why not have the Alberta forest industry develop a management skill that would will allow them to grow forests at a fast rate and turn it into grain? Then you can use part of it as bioenergy in a sustainable way to run the system in your oil sands industry. That's one simple example that can give a tremendous stimulus opportunity.
Next, because you are aligned with the petrochemical industry, it is very easy for Alberta's forest industry to give feeds to this industry. As an example, nanocellulose can be used as a material for drilling partners, for example. There's a huge amount of petroleum chemicals going there and it's polluting the mud. Instead, you could have a biochemical that is very environmentally friendly and can replace that. There are many, many applications. I don't want to bore you all, but I consider them—
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
Thank you, but you are out of time, Ms. Crockatt.
Thank you, sir.
We go now to the Official Opposition. Mr. Rafferty, up to seven minutes.
4:25 p.m.
NDP
John Rafferty NDP Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON
Thank you, Chair.
I do agree with you, Chair, that this is a fascinating panel today, and thank you, clerk, for making it all happen.
I was interested in the comment that Mr. Pelletier made. He talked about attracting new partners. One of the ones you mentioned was pharmaceuticals. That got me thinking outside the box, and I think it was Professor Sain, or Professor Rakshit, who said you have to think outside the box. So I'm thinking outside the box. My question is for our two chemists here.
A few months ago the House of Commons passed a motion that we're going to try to get rid of microbeads, because they're filling up our waters, they're filling up our lakes. As you know, Dr. Rakshit, even pristine Lake Superior is not rife with them, but they are there.
To clarify, microbeads are all those things that pharmaceutical companies put in their products—toothpastes and face washes—which end up going through the system because water treatment doesn't collect them. Maybe I'm not the first one to think outside the box on this one and I'll be disappointed if I'm not the first one, but what opportunities might there be to replace those microbeads with a wood product? Nanocrystals, if you don't shrink them a million times, maybe just shrink them 1,000 times, then maybe they'll....
Maybe both of you, Dr. Gray and Dr. Rakshit, could answer that.
4:25 p.m.
Emeritus Professor, Department of Chemistry, McGill University, As an Individual
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Yes is the answer. Cellulose is a relatively abrasive polymer and it would work very well as both a stabilizer for lots of toothpaste and stuff like that, so there are many applications that are being looked at. At the moment, it's simply a question of whether the material is available in the right quantities at the right quality for commercialization.
4:30 p.m.
Prof. Sudip Kumar Rakshit
He's more of a chemist; I'm more of a chemical engineer.
It is certainly possible to do it, in the sense that you can make these nanocellulose and cellulosic fibres into smart chemicals, or you can add some characteristics to them that will help get the product to work.
4:30 p.m.
NDP
John Rafferty NDP Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON
So let me ask you, how can Canada be the first one to do this, before other people listen to this and say, “That MP had a good idea here”? How can we do it first, and what kind of government support would help us do that first? That's in general terms because, as you say, there are lots of different sorts of applications, but I'm thinking of microbeads right now.
4:30 p.m.
NDP
John Rafferty NDP Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON
It all started right here in this place.
So what needs to happen to make that happen, because you're talking about price? You're talking about quantities. If you think about what microbeads are used in now these are enormous quantities we're talking about that would be required. What needs to happen and I'm assuming there's a government role here?
4:30 p.m.
Emeritus Professor, Department of Chemistry, McGill University, As an Individual
I don't know how to answer quickly within one minute, but the answer is yes. There's competence in that area at universities, particularly at McMaster University in Hamilton, because there's a mixture of colloid chemists there and people who make nanocrystals, and they're very good at looking for money. So the answer is a combination of NSERC research in the fundamental area, because you have to stabilize these particles, but also CRD money. The real problem is finding a Canadian company that's willing to take on Procter & Gamble. That's the problem. In fact, Procter & Gamble has supported this sort of research at Hamilton as far as I know. That's one contributing factor.
I think one of my colleagues mentioned the need for entrepreneurs. Since people are making handmade soap in kitchens, it would be almost possible if they could buy the nanocrystals to do the same for say toothpaste and cleaning materials. But we need an entrepreneurial activity among students.
If I could just take another minute of your time....
4:30 p.m.
Emeritus Professor, Department of Chemistry, McGill University, As an Individual
The CREATE program of NSERC is actually encouraging, in giving the soft skills to graduate students and post-docs to pursue entrepreneurial activities. So the answer is it's being done. You just need to get as an MP on the case of the people. I'll give you a list of names.
4:30 p.m.
NDP
John Rafferty NDP Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON
Thank you. I would be happy to. I don't want the patent, by the way, on that. I'm just suggesting that the government could have the patent on it.
Do you want to make a comment, Mr. Rakshit?
4:30 p.m.
Prof. Sudip Kumar Rakshit
I don't want to disappoint you, but you are not the first one to think about it.
But there are two other aspects of it that come up, because the problem we have in Lake Superior is not a common problem that would exist in most other parts of the world. You have a solution to a very typical problem. That brings me to a point I didn't mention during my presentation, which is can we make some products that need the types of materials that only we have?
Unfortunately, and that goes for even a new product like this or anything else, emerging countries always catch up. I'll give you an example of that. In the type of wood we have, we have long fibres that are of much better quality cellulose than those of the eucalyptus, but now over the last 10 or 15 years some of these countries, Brazil, etc. have created, developed, eucalyptus that also has long fibres. So there's not going to be a time that we're going to say we did it first so we're going to stay ahead. We have to continuously be moving ahead; otherwise they're going to be copying us or getting the technology in place anyway.
4:30 p.m.
NDP
4:30 p.m.
NDP
John Rafferty NDP Thunder Bay—Rainy River, ON
Mr. Voss, you briefly talked about the softwood lumber agreement. I just want your thoughts. It's coming up next year. It's my understanding that if nothing is done, the status quo will simply be maintained.
Did I hear you correctly that you're not entirely sure that's the way the government should go to renew an agreement that looks the same?
4:30 p.m.
President and CEO, MLTC Resource Development LP
There are two views on this one. If you make any minor changes at all, then the U.S. is going to jump all over it and want to open the whole thing up for massive renegotiation. So our Canadian negotiators are always hesitant to try to change anything and hope that the status quo just gets renewed. But Saskatchewan has been treated unfairly in the whole agreement throughout. When there weren't sawmills running, there was enough quota. But now that lumber markets have returned, three sawmills are now running where there used to be just one and there isn't enough quota. Whereas with the mountain pine beetle, you had extensive sawmill closures in other provinces and excess quota. So it wouldn't take much to shuffle it around a little bit, but there's a view that this might must just jeopardize the negotiation.
4:35 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Leon Benoit
Thank you and thank you, Mr. Rafferty.
We go now to our Liberal member on the committee, Mr. Regan, for up to seven minutes.
