Natural Resources Committee on Nov. 25th, 2013

[Christiane Villemure]

Mr. Chairman, Canada as a country is a major producer of uranium. There are many regulations associated with handling radioactivity, and a rare earth mine would fall under those regulations. There is significant know-how to handle radioactivity, whether it's uranium or a rare earth mine.

[Ryan Cleary, NDP, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Thank you, Mr. Cleary.

We have now Mr. Zimmer, followed by Monsieur Gravelle, and then Mr. Leef.

Go ahead, please, Mr. Zimmer, for up to five minutes.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River, BC]

Thank you again for appearing before the committee.

I have a question about page 5 in your slides. There's one thing that's of interest to me. Again, I'm from northeastern B.C., so we deal with a lot of natural resources. Some, I guess, are concerned about how those resources are developed, but we've developed enough procedures that are very safe, and very safe for consumers and all the rest of it.

I'd like to talk about how rare earth elements are used in the green energy industry, or the green economy, as some call it. I've had this discussion with different groups, too, about how much actual coal is involved in making one wind turbine. It's between 140 and 170 tonnes, so sometimes I guess the green movement, if you want to call it that, doesn't necessarily understand that even for their own green technologies, they still need these materials.

I just wanted to ask a few questions about—and we have it on the slide—what materials go into a hybrid car that would be considered rare earth elements. It's on the slide, but it's very small, so I can't quite read it. Could you speak to that?

[Christiane Villemure]

That's an interesting question. I would have difficulty reading this too.

I do have a list of rare earth elements and how they are used in various applications and clean technologies. At the outset, I can mention that cars will use quite a number of rare earth elements. The most predominant are the heavy rare earths that are important for super magnets. For example, the electric windows in our cars are actioned by a magnet containing rare earth. As we are moving to smaller and lighter cars, we need materials that are not needed in large quantities; hence, the specific uses for rare earth elements.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River, BC]

You spoke a bit about the terminology “rare earth”, and I guess that could make some concerned that eventually we're going to run out of rare earth materials.

Is that a valid concern? As you say, the quantities that are used in these particular applications are small, but does it mean that we have a small amount?

Could you clarify that for the committee?

[Christiane Villemure]

Mr. Chairman, the rare earth elements are very important, and, as mentioned, they are used very often in minute quantities. The concern is the growth in the numbers of apparatus, the number of cellphones, for example. The demand for hybrid cars is also spinning the demand upwards.

There's research or a number of activities or intentions to look at alternatives. So far, very few alternatives have been found. It doesn't mean this will not happen. If we continue to pursue that topic, probably alternatives will be found. Another mechanism is to try to see if we can use less of that material, and some progress has been made already in that direction.

Because of the growth in the number of applications, projections are such that the current supply, even if we consider finding alternatives and recycling, will not be sufficient. We will need to continue to have sources of these products, and we will continue to need to mine rare earths.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River, BC]

I'll ask this again.

We talked about the green technologies. This is from the perspective of a northeastern British Columbian who deals with opposition to developing resources without the full understanding that if we don't develop them it will completely come to a stop. And that means any kinds of gains, such as you're talking about with being more efficient by using fewer elements to make a certain technology. There isn't necessarily an understanding; it will take some time to get there, but we need to keep going to get there.

Can you clarify for the committee—and this is getting close to an opinion—that developing technologies is still a positive step, and green technologies, or we simply couldn't develop them?

Could you speak to that a bit?

[Christiane Villemure]

Mr. Chairman, without giving specific applications, I think the honourable member is correct in his statement that there is a dependency on rare earth and that there are some rare earth elements that are absolutely essential, and will continue to be essential, in order to develop clean technology, energy efficient technologies, and various electronic applications.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River, BC]

Okay. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Thank you.

At the top of your slide you say impacts upon industries worth $4.8 trillion.

For clarification, is that worldwide, and is it per year?

[Christiane Villemure]

Mr. Chairman, this is worldwide and it would be in a given year.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Okay. Thanks.

We go now to Mr. Gravelle, followed by Mr. Leef and then Mr. Trost.

[Claude Gravelle, NDP, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I want to clarify something that I think I heard.

On page 10, did I hear you say that most of these companies are still in the feasibility study?

[Christiane Villemure]

Mr. Chairman, most of these companies—in fact, all of these companies except one—are at the pre-feasibility stage. A couple have done feasibility studies. Quest has just released one, and Avalon has gone through the environmental assessment process.

[Claude Gravelle, NDP, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you.

Mr. Habib, I'd like to go back to tailings for a minute. One of the mines in the Ring of Fire, Noront, is recycling its tailings as fill for the mine, reducing their footprint.

Is there a study being made that might allow for the tailings for rare earth to be returned back into the mines as fill?

[Magdi Habib]

Mr. Chairman, there are no studies being conducted, actually, but before we would do this recycling into the mining operation we'd have to make sure that the tailings were being cleaned of impurities and other contaminants before bringing it back to the mine.

[Claude Gravelle, NDP, Nickel Belt, ON]

How do you purify tailings?

[Magdi Habib]

We can use the same process that we're using for the purification and recycling or the purification throughout the process through leaching and separation. That would be the same process we could use downstream in the metallurgical process.

So we can use the same technology, but at the tailing stage, for which we are in development at the present time.

[Claude Gravelle, NDP, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you.

Do we know how much rare earth is needed to make Canada sustainable?

[Christiane Villemure]

Mr. Chair, that's a very interesting question. Canada will purchase finished goods that contain rare earth, so by saying “self-sustainable”, Canada will always need to rely on products that are manufactured elsewhere, to some extent. Some products are manufactured in Canada. Some cars are manufactured in Canada. The aeronautics industry is very strong in Canada. But some products that we use in our daily lives are imported, and they contain rare earth elements.

In some industries and in some manufacturing that is conducted in Canada, companies are purchasing pieces or parts or widgets that contain rare earth elements.

[Claude Gravelle, NDP, Nickel Belt, ON]

How important does the government think creating a strategic alliance to create a Canadian rare earth chain supply is, and what has to happen for Canada to build a platform for self-reliance?

[Christiane Villemure]

That's a very, very complex question. I'm not sure I have all the information or the data or the breadth to be able to answer it in a logical fashion. If the member wants to have some appreciation of that, perhaps it's better for us to get back to the committee.

[Claude Gravelle, NDP, Nickel Belt, ON]

Thank you.

Is the demand for rare earth expected to remain high for an extended period of time?

[Christiane Villemure]

Yes.