Natural Resources Committee on Dec. 4th, 2013

[Paul Barnes]

I haven't seen that in the past. But I think this bill does provide clarity as to exactly who has regulatory authority over occupational health and safety. So if there are any disagreements now with respect to any incident or any safety-related issue, this bill provides clarity as to who actually has jurisdiction.

[Joan Crockatt, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

In your view, was it previously the case that no matter who happened to see something that they thought might be a safety infraction, whether supervisor or worker or whoever, they would have had a duty to report?

[Paul Barnes]

Yes, that certainly occurred in the past, and the Offshore Petroleum Board was always the principal regulator for the offshore. Occasionally, the provincial departments of labour thought that they also had a role.

[Joan Crockatt, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Okay.

[Paul Barnes]

Now this provides some additional clarity.

[Joan Crockatt, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

You said 34% of Newfoundland and Labrador's GDP is related to offshore petroleum?

[Paul Barnes]

That's correct, yes.

[Joan Crockatt, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

And that accounts for about $40 billion?

[Paul Barnes]

No, $40 billion has been spent since 1996 on investment in the offshore in Newfoundland.

[Joan Crockatt, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

So this builds on Mr. Zimmer's question. How important do you think this legislation may be in keeping the economy of Atlantic Canada moving forward, given that amount of investment?

[Paul Barnes]

Certainly, the investment in the offshore oil and gas in Newfoundland and Nova Scotia will continue to increase in the future, in my view. This bill won't have any impact on investment.

[Joan Crockatt, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

What about the social licence to operate and the people's comfort level with the regulatory component? Do you feel that it will provide the industry with any assistance in being able to say to the public that they have a very strong regulator who is putting in place guidelines they intend to live up to?

[Paul Barnes]

I hope that's the case, but I think the real benefit will come from industry workers having a view that their voice may be greatly heard now with the passage of this bill. They'll have more input into safety-related matters dealing with themselves.

[Joan Crockatt, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Do you agree with Justice Wells that there's a psychological component to being involved in the decision-making process if you're dealing with an area like health and safety?

[Paul Barnes]

Yes, that's correct, that the workers have a view and that view will be heard.

[Joan Crockatt, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Do you believe that your safety training of your members is sufficient?

None of us wants to see a helicopter accident again; the reason for this bill is to make sure that we have had a comprehensive look at it, that the provinces are working together with the federal government, and that we have best practices and that they are being implemented.

Can you speak, in general, to those components?

[Paul Barnes]

Yes, well, there's certainly always room for continuous improvement when it comes to safety training. As Justice Wells indicated, new equipment to enhance training is available within the training institute in Newfoundland and in Nova Scotia as well. As technology improves, obviously, new technology will be brought to bear when it comes to training. We've assessed other offshore training programs around the world, in areas where there is offshore, and Canada's training for offshore workers is the best, largely because of the environment we find ourselves working in.

[Joan Crockatt, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

That's interesting. So Canada's is the best. Who are we are comparing ourselves to?

[Paul Barnes]

We certainly look at Norway, the United Kingdom, the Gulf of Mexico, and Australia, which have very similar offshore jurisdictions to those of Newfoundland and Nova Scotia.

[Joan Crockatt, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

What areas? I find that fascinating. Could you just elaborate on the areas you looked at and what areas we are really exceeding in then?

[Paul Barnes]

We looked at the basic survival training for the most part, which is the training that every offshore worker has to go through before they go offshore. So we looked at all components of that—how they're trained to escape a helicopter, how they use their lifesaving equipment, how they get in and out of a life boat, the fit of their survival suits. All aspects of training were compared, and we ranked very highly.

[Joan Crockatt, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Is that dramatically different from how it would have been four-and-a-half years ago in March 2009?

[Paul Barnes]

I don't think it would be dramatically different. I think we’ve probably improved since then. I wouldn't say it would be a dramatic improvement.

[The Chair, Conservative, Leon Benoit]

Thank you, Ms. Crockatt, very much.

Thank you to both you gentlemen. I think you've provided us with some extremely helpful information. You come from incredible backgrounds, and the committee thanks you for being here today and for helping us with our study of Bill C-5.

I will suspend for just a couple of minutes.

Point of order, Mr. Gravelle.

[Claude Gravelle, NDP, Nickel Belt, ON]

Mr. Chair, I believe you don't have to suspend the meeting. We can do this in public.

My motion is one that's of interest to the people of Ontario and also in the interests of the federal government, because, as you well know, the provincial government has been blaming the federal government for everything that's gone wrong with the Ring of Fire, and I think we should discuss this in public.

It's in the best interests of the people of Ontario and the people of Canada that this motion be discussed in public.