Natural Resources Committee on Sept. 25th, 2018

[Chris Norfolk]

Mr. Chair, certainly the State of Maine is very interested in the research that is being conducted in Atlantic Canada right now. The State of Maine regularly participates in the Healthy Forest Partnership in a variety of aspects, both on the research side and the communications side. We also share data regularly with our American colleagues. Thus far, they have not seen escalations to the same degree that we've seen in northern New Brunswick. It seems to be simply that the direction in which the outbreak is spreading hasn't reached the state of Maine yet.

I believe they are interested in leveraging some of the benefits of the research that's been conducted on the Canadian side. They are very carefully watching for our rate of success, so it would not surprise me to see the Americans considering an early intervention approach when significant populations of budworm are detected there.

As for the Quebec region—and perhaps I'd defer to some of my federal colleagues—I simply don't believe that this alternative was available within the Quebec region at the time the outbreak was starting in earnest, north of the St. Lawrence River. That goes back to the very early 2000s. Much of the research actually produced and generated in Quebec simply came at a time after their outbreak had started.

[Nick Whalen, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you very much.

I will turn back to Mr. MacFarlane. If we're going to have these large stands of dead trees in Quebec, I don't want to be in a situation 10 years from now when future parliamentarians are discussing the fact that there are massive wildfires in Quebec but nothing could have been done to prevent them because we're saying, “It's all climate change.” There's a certain point in time when you can blame whom you want to blame, but we have a foreseeable event in the future based on what's happening in B.C., where there will be large stands of dead trees that will burn. We're asking what we can do as a government to facilitate the mitigation of that future disaster.

[Derek MacFarlane]

I can't speak for Quebec as to what they would do, but salvaging dead and dying trees is certainly an option to any jurisdiction during an outbreak. To pick up on what my colleagues from the province were saying, they are very interested in this early intervention strategy. They've told us that. In theory, it could be applied to the western front, if it's spreading west in a similar situation to what is happening in northern New Brunswick, just starting into the area. They could apply that. It's up to the province, basically, to use that.

[Nick Whalen, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

In a place like British Columbia, where 50% of the forest didn't burn this year but a lot of it did, and a whole lot burned last year, we're very likely to be facing another year next year when mountain pine beetle-infested forest is going to burn. What can and should we be doing now, and how can the federal government help manage this before the fire starts?

Should we be cutting swaths around the edge of the dead timber so we already have a buffer for the firefighters? What types of techniques can and should we be sponsoring to mitigate against what really is an inevitable disaster before the forest is burned?

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

You're going to have to answer that question in about 30 seconds.

[Derek MacFarlane]

Since 2002, we've spent a lot of money on risk mitigation, reducing the fire hazard in the surrounding communities and indigenous communities. Those are the types of things the federal government has gotten involved in. Whether we get involved in that in the future is to be determined, I guess.

[Nick Whalen, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

To stop being involved with the mitigation—

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Mr. Whalen, I have to stop you.

Mr. Schmale, you have five minutes.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Thank you very much, Chair.

To my friends from New Brunswick, can you run through the jurisdictional timeline and boundaries for each one? When an outbreak is discovered, I'm guessing it's both local and provincial. Is there a local step first, or does this strictly rely on the province to start the initial steps forward?

[Chris Norfolk]

In our case, the province has the mandate to detect and monitor for all forest health issues. In the case of the spruce budworm, the genesis of this outbreak was detected through the province, I think, and then simultaneously as well through some of our research partners. There wouldn't be a local-level jurisdiction that would have been on the leading edge of this.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Okay. Just to clarify, when the province discovers this and starts moving forward, at what point does the federal government get involved? Or are you in constant communication every step of the way?

[Chris Norfolk]

For the spruce budworm in particular, I'd characterize our relationship with the federal government as being very close, particularly given that the Canadian Forest Service has been actively involved in spruce budworm research for many decades. At the time of the outbreak discovery, we would have been in touch with our federal partners for advice and support almost immediately.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

In terms of on-the-ground work, is that mainly the job of provincial authorities?

[Chris Norfolk]

Yes.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Advice would come from the federal agencies to the provincial authority. The on-the-ground work is done mainly by the provincial authorities.

[Chris Ward]

Yes. The monitoring of the populations is done both by the province and by the industry in New Brunswick. The industry contributes to the monitoring. It's a commitment that needs to be supported every year. The monitoring of the populations is key to the management, so it's something that we're committed to and that we do annually.

[Chris Norfolk]

In the case of treatment, it's the provincial minister who has the legislative authority to authorize treatment.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Okay. Just so I understand correctly, when the monitoring is going on, is it the provincial coffers that are funding all of this, or do the feds have a funding module that you can kick into to help with this?

[Chris Norfolk]

For the most recent experience with spruce budworm—again, our experience really began in earnest around 2013—we managed to partner extensively with our forest industry in helping with on-the-ground monitoring, simply because they have the staff and they're actively managing the forest. They also have a vested interest in the results of the monitoring, so they've been eager to participate in the effort.

As an example, this past year we put in roughly 2,000 points across the province. Although I don't have the numbers directly in front of me, my estimate would be that around 35% to 40% of those points were put in by the forest industry. The remainder would have been primarily through the province, through our own staff.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Is there anything else you would recommend that the federal government help more with on the provincial level in terms of monitoring, treatment or whatnot? Is there anything you see that we can be more effective in?

[Chris Ward]

As I tried to echo in my 10-minute opening, I think the federal government, through NRCan and CFS, has been highly valuable in the management of the spruce budworm. There have been many decades of collaboration and huge contributions to the science.

I think it's the provincial government's responsibility to monitor pests and to combat their influence and protect the forests. CFS is a huge contributor to the science and the background, and I think they should continue to be that.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Thank you.

Mr. Harvey, go ahead.

[TJ Harvey, Liberal, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I thank all the guests for coming today.

I want to start with Chris and Chris. It's good to see you guys. I'm glad to have your input on this issue. It's certainly an issue that we as a province have struggled with, arguably for the last 60 years, commercially.

I want to touch on something as we start. In an earlier comment, my colleague referenced his work as an ecologist and said that maybe with regard to some of these pests we've done enough research. It seemed as though he was indicating that maybe we should take the approach of just allowing the cycle to run its course.

I was wondering if you would like to delve into that a bit, Chris, and just elaborate on the past economic pressure the spruce budworm has put on Atlantic Canada—not only in New Brunswick, but with New Brunswick being the most liable province because of our proximity to Quebec—and on how invasive this species is for a province that's as small as ours when we have such a huge problem right next to us.

[Chris Ward]

There's a lot of history here. It's well documented. About 50% of the forest in New Brunswick is in stands of pure conifer. Our wood supply and our consumption are in line so that most of the wood supply being consumed currently and in the future, given the industrial capacity that is built, very much matches the supply. Impacts to the supply impact jobs and the ability to keep mills running. This approach has been very important, then, to keep jobs and to keep the wood supply to the mills.

Based on past experience, reductions in wood supply could be up to 20%. A 20% reduction in wood supply would have a major impact on the employment in the province.

[TJ Harvey, Liberal, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

I'll just build on that a bit. Being from New Brunswick and recognizing, on an ever-increasing basis, the role that maple production has played in the province's economy in recent years, and the close proximity between small private woodlot owners, the provincial holdings, and the large industrial players and the way they're interacting together, can you speak, from a total fibre management standpoint, to some of the indirect negative consequences of this? We talk a lot of times about the fibre we harvest, but we don't necessarily talk about the fibre we need to see stand. Also, our forest is very much mixed vegetation in a small province. How is that important with regard to the maple industry in New Brunswick?