We heard from witnesses that they found it quite a challenge to achieve the energy efficiency in a very cost-effective manner. When you try to convince your customers, I guess the big resistance is from senior management. What strategy or what experience do you have when you talk to those people and try to convince those people? You just answered Mr. Falk's question that touched on that. I wanted you to tell us more.
On December 6th, 2018. See this statement in context.