Natural Resources Committee on Feb. 5th, 2019

[Nick Whalen, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

—is your organization claiming that you want an apartness, or are you saying that you can stay and work within Canada? The explicit examples you gave of reconciliation—

[Chief Byron Louis]

Yes.

[Nick Whalen, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

—proposed an apartness, not a togetherness.

[Chief Byron Louis]

Basically what I put in there is to look at reconciliation, and also the fact that, again, there is evidence in British Columbia that sits in the archives, is clearly defined by people like the Hudson's Bay Company, early explorers and all of these other ones, and delineates—

[Nick Whalen, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

Again, sir, that's fine. If you're not going to answer the question, that's fine, because I have another question for Mr. Smith.

[Chief Byron Louis]

I am answering the question.

[Nick Whalen, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

Okay, so are you asking for an apartness? Are you asking for separate and distinct sovereign states, or a togetherness, in terms of shared land?

[Chief Byron Louis]

No, I'm not asking for separate sovereign states, in the meaning of today. It's more or less going along the line—

[Nick Whalen, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

Perfect. Thank you so much for clarifying that.

Mr. Smith, obviously, in the north, resource development is important, and for my area of the country as well—offshore oil and gas development.

What are some of the challenges your organization is facing in trying to get natural gas development? How can the federal government be a better partner in that, and what hindrances are you finding, in terms of the state of negotiations on natural gas development in your territory?

[Duane Ningaqsiq Smith]

Well, first of all, it's the remoteness, and the high cost of doing any type of business in that part of Canada, in the Arctic. Geographically, we're closer to Asia than to the rest of Canada, if you look at it.

Again, it's the high cost of conducting business where we are, as well as what I pointed out in my initial comments. Regardless of who the federal government is, there is a lack of clear planning, or a clear commitment to Canada's Arctic.

The four Inuit regions cover 38% of Canada's land mass. We have 50% of Canada's coastline within our four regions. There is no approach, strategy or plan with any of us to have development on a consistent basis. It's all ad hoc. It's all on a whim. There is no 20-year forecast, or vision, etc., regardless of what resource we're talking about.

As I said, we've been sitting on stranded oil and gas for 50 years now.

Part of the problem with Canada's system is that when it allows a company to explore—

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Mr. Smith, I'm going to have to ask you to wrap up, if you could, please.

[Duane Ningaqsiq Smith]

—it allows this company to sit on what we call an SDL, a significant discovery licence, forever. The minister has the discretion to tell a company to develop, but that has never been exercised. We need to do that.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Thank you.

Ms. Stubbs.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

Thanks to all of you for being here.

As a member of Parliament from northeast Alberta, a big rural area, I certainly always enjoy the times when we can celebrate the ways in which indigenous communities are partners and owners in resource development. There are so many examples in the communities that I represent in Lakeland and that neighbour my riding to the north in Alberta.

I regret that we have limited time here. We have so many witnesses and such complex issues that our time is going to be limited.

Mayor Helin, I thank you for being here. Could you shed a little bit more light for the committee on your experience in terms of the development of Bill C-48, which you cited at the closing of your comments?

I'm just trying to get some clarity on a discrepancy of claims here. Last week, my office received a reply to an Order Paper question, and it said:

The Minister of Transport engaged directly with Indigenous groups.... The government held 20 meetings with Indigenous groups, including the Lax Kw'alaams....

However, a department official from Indigenous Services Canada said at this committee last week that he wasn't aware of or involved in any consultations with indigenous people before the Prime Minister imposed that initial ban after he was elected.

Can you just help me figure out what this discrepancy is? Maybe they met with your community on other issues not related to Bill C-48?

[John Helin]

You're talking about the consultation record?

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Yes, and whether or not there was consultation on the development of Bill C-48.

[John Helin]

Well, as far as I'm concerned, the consultation was right after the Liberal government was elected. The minister came to Prince Rupert and met with some of our groups. I wasn't at the meeting at that time, but he did mention that they were going to impose a tanker ban. The Coast Tsimshian, along with our village and with Metlakatla, delivered a letter that said we were against it. We were not consulted.

I've been to I don't know how many standing committees. When the government says that it has met with me 50 times, none of those meetings involved consultation on a tanker ban. As far as I'm concerned, it's just like the Great Bear Rainforest. That was imposed on us by the province without consulting us.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Maybe we can talk about that. There is a member of your community, Calvin Helin. He said:

...what the chiefs are starting to see a lot now is that there is a lot of underhanded tactics where certain people are paid in communities and they're used as...spokespersons—essentially puppets and props—...to kill resource development.

He goes on to say:

It's outrageous. People should be upset about that, and the chiefs are [upset].

There are linkages of millions of dollars in foreign funding going into anti-energy campaigns in B.C., including for the explicit purpose of imposing Bill C-48 on B.C.'s north coast. I think most Canadians probably find that a little bit unbelievable. They don't know and they can't imagine that this could actually be happening.

Since you did mention it, could you expand on the experience of your community?

[John Helin]

I was elected into my position partway through a negotiation on a proposed LNG project in our area. NGOs infiltrated our community and there was controversy over where the project would be situated. That caused a lot of division amongst our members.

What I had to do was get the right information from people who had no skin in the game whether it went or didn't go. I got good information to our membership, and it turned from just about 100% saying “no” to over two-thirds accepting that project. I would encourage everybody to listen to Vivian Krause and follow the money, follow how that money comes into Canada. There are individuals named in my community who received funding from those groups. You know, it's out there. It's alive and well, and it's well organized.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Is that at all related to the confusion over claims of who are hereditary chiefs and who aren't, and then also with your being an elected leader?

[John Helin]

I would equate it to what the Russians did in the federal election below the border where they created confusion. I think there are people in the States who want our energy resources cheap and they're good at what they do. It's well funded and well organized.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

I think it would alarm most Canadians everywhere that resource development in Canada could be stopped by foreign interests, robbing indigenous communities of the ability to make decisions on their own territory for their own economic opportunities now and long into the future.

I have another question about the offshore drilling ban. Along the same lines, and given our discussion about the need for governments to engage with indigenous communities on resource development, it seems to me to follow that they should also probably consult on legislation and policies related to resource development too. Was there consultation on the moratorium on northern offshore oil and gas drilling?

[Duane Ningaqsiq Smith]

Thanks for bringing it up. I didn't have it in my comments. Although the government doesn't call it a moratorium, that's what it is. It was imposed on us without recognizing our rights on the offshore. No, we were not consulted prior to it being imposed on us.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

What would you say should happen now? I think it would be within the government's power to revoke its moratorium and engage in meaningful consultation with you and with the territory.

[Duane Ningaqsiq Smith]

For clarification right now, the territory doesn't have any jurisdiction in the offshore. It's all federal because we're territories.