Natural Resources Committee on May 14th, 2019

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

We're seeing billions of dollars—

[Frank Des Rosiers]

—that this is something we're very—

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

—in investment fleeing Canada.

[Frank Des Rosiers]

—seized with, and we're working hard to continue to improve. It's an ongoing effort that every country has to pay attention to.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Since we're on the theme—

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

You're right on time there.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Oh. All right.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news.

Your colleague to the right can tell you what it's like.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Mr. Graham, you have the floor.

[David Graham, Liberal, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Mr. Des Rosiers, in your opening remarks, you mentioned 276,000 jobs in the oil and gas sector.

What does this figure include? Does it go so far as to include gas station attendants in the retail sector? Who does it cover?

[Chris Evans]

That figure was for direct employment.

I'm sorry, the question was addressed to my colleague.

The same data source that gives us the 276,000 direct jobs would give 900,000 if indirect jobs were counted.

[David Graham, Liberal, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

That's true.

Slide number 5 talks about new technologies for managing wastewater.

Can you talk more about it? Are we going to get to the point where wastewater could be transformed back into drinking water? If not, what do we do with this water?

[Frank Des Rosiers]

You're referring to the work on retention basins.

[David Graham, Liberal, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Yes.

[Frank Des Rosiers]

This is a significant issue, which has been raised many times by our citizens and clients. We have all seen the images of these huge basins that could and do pose short-, medium- and long-term problems. In the mining sector, for example, we have seen significant risks of spills in this regard. This explains our attention and that of the industry to develop extraction processes that do not generate large retention basins of this type. In this regard, there are various technologies that are at the demonstration stage before they can be exploited on a commercial scale.

I mentioned another initiative a moment ago. We have been talking about this for several years now, and now we have reached the stage of carrying out these large-scale projects. The aim is to be able to extract hydrocarbon residues from these large ponds that are still commercially attractive, as well as metals, in particular heavy metals such as titanium, and therefore be able to sell them on the global market in order to generate products.

This technology has been under development for several years by Titanium Corporation. It is preparing, with major oil and gas companies, to carry out a project worth $400 million to make this dream a reality. This is a golden opportunity for Canada to reduce or eliminate these types of facilities that are of concern to our citizens.

[David Graham, Liberal, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

With regard to the tailings we already have, is there any way or any upcoming technology that can transform wastewater into drinking water? Will it be recycled later in one way or another?

[Frank Des Rosiers]

The main concern at present

—and maybe my colleague, Dr. Siewe, could elaborate on this, as the lab definitely does a lot of water research to reduce the amount of freshwater intake into the process—

and therefore to use the current water in several usage cycles. Does the water become potable?

I'll leave that to my colleague, who is more expert than I am.

[Cecile Siewe, Director General, Innovation and Energy Technology Sector, CanmetENERGY-Devon]

It's not possible to recycle the water yet, but the intention is to reduce the amount of fresh water as much as possible, and then have investigation and R and D into the treatment process, to get it as close as possible to a state that allows you to return it.

[David Graham, Liberal, Laurentides—Labelle, QC]

Concerning the transformation technology for CO2—we also talk about it on the same page—what solution have you already found? What can we already do with CO2?

[Frank Des Rosiers]

Thank you for the question.

This is really a fast-growing sector, where Canada is a world leader in capturing CO2 at the source. There are different carbon capture techniques. It can be captured on industrial sites and even in the air. Carbon Engineering of Squamish, British Columbia, is a world leader in the field and has attracted significant investment from major institutional investors.

The fields of application are numerous. When we think of CO2, we think of negative repercussions, whereas it can be transformed into useful products. Among the Canadian companies that stand out in this regard are CarbonCure Technologies, which reinjects CO2 into concrete or cement to improve its chemical properties and make it more robust and efficient, while reducing production costs. It is very successful not only in Canada, but also in North America, with nearly 100 sites operating commercially throughout the Americas. This company is also the subject of strong interest in other markets around the world. This is an example of a company with great potential. This can also be used to produce plastics or other building materials. There is a strong interest here.

Canada, Canadian and American companies have joined forces with the XPRIZE Foundation, which launches major global competitions and has invested $20 million to gather ideas in the field. The most popular competition in the history of XPRIZE Foundation was the development of new uses for CO2. The good news is that many of the companies selected are Canadian.

At the end of the month, a major ministerial conference will be held in Vancouver, which will bring together the 25 major players in the clean energy sector. Canada will host Clean Energy Ministerial and Mission Innovation-4 to celebrate these types of companies and solutions that are available to the world.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Thank you, Mr. Graham.

Mr. Falk.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Thank you, witnesses, for your presentation here today.

I've got more questions than time. I will start with one question.

Earlier today I was able to meet with the Mining Association of Canada. One of their concerns was a Liberal fuel standard that's being proposed. You mentioned earlier in your presentation that from a tax perspective we are very competitive with our major competition, the United States. They don't have a carbon tax. When you consider the carbon tax and a proposed Liberal fuel standard that could amount to anywhere from $150 to $400 per tonne of carbon, how will that position us competitively?

[Chris Evans]

In developing the fuel standard, I think the government recognizes the impacts that climate change is having on Canada and the world and is committed to addressing it. The clean fuel standard is part of that. It's led by Environment and Climate Change Canada. The government has stated an objective through that of reducing carbon pollution by 30 megatonnes by 2030, which is equivalent to taking about seven million cars off the road.

As I mentioned earlier, our department continues to work with ECCC on this file in understanding the impact on stakeholders, in terms of of analysis, and providing that input to them so they can continue their work in refining the shape this may take.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Have you done any modelling on how this might impact our natural gas and oil producers? We already know that over $80 billion in investment in our energy sector has gone south or elsewhere in the last three years.

How would a Liberal fuel standard impact that?