Evidence of meeting #136 for Natural Resources in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was production.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Frank Des Rosiers  Assistant Deputy Minister, Innovation and Energy Technology Sector, Department of Natural Resources
Chris Evans  Senior Director, Pipelines, Gas and LNG, Energy Sector, Petroleum Resources Branch, Department of Natural Resources
Cecile Siewe  Director General, Innovation and Energy Technology Sector, CanmetENERGY-Devon

4:50 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Innovation and Energy Technology Sector, Department of Natural Resources

Frank Des Rosiers

That's right.

As you know, this applies to the oil and gas sector, particularly for pipeline projects, such as the consultations we are conducting in response to the Court of Appeal's decision. This also applies to all major projects that focus on Canada's energy, mining and forestry resources. We do it rigorously.

We are also exploring another area that is generating great enthusiasm and involvement from our partners in indigenous communities. Specifically, we are looking for ways to reduce their reliance on diesel to produce energy and allow them to migrate to clean energy sources, focus on renewable energy and store energy. Just recently, we launched a $20 million program to train a new generation in this area. We have a large number of projects under way with indigenous communities across the country to help them make this transition to clean energy sources.

4:50 p.m.

Liberal

David Graham Liberal Laurentides—Labelle, QC

Thank you very much.

4:50 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal James Maloney

Thank you, Mr. Graham.

Mr. Cannings, you're last, but not least.

4:50 p.m.

NDP

Richard Cannings NDP South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC

I'm trying to think of a way to wrap up here, because I'm still a bit....

We have the IPCC report that tells us that if we're going to meet our targets, not just in Canada but around the world, we are going to have to start cutting back significantly on our oil use around the world. The curve goes down steeply, to basically zero by 2050—30 years from now.

I'm wondering if NRCan ever looks at those scenarios and believes that maybe the world can do this, that maybe we can beat climate change, or do you throw up your hands and say, “I hope those IPCC scientists are wrong. We hope that the other countries of the world won't meet their targets, so that all of this investment won't be for naught.”

Every day, I'm puzzled at that scenario. We are facing this world problem and yet I come here and hear there are plans for increased production—not just here but around the world.

I'm wondering how you deal with that at NRCan.

4:55 p.m.

Assistant Deputy Minister, Innovation and Energy Technology Sector, Department of Natural Resources

Frank Des Rosiers

Mr. Chair, the question by committee members with regard to the IPCC is one that we take extremely seriously. This is why this government has invested such a large amount of effort in the development of a pan-Canadian framework on climate change.

This department, NRCan, is the delivery arm for the majority of those programs, whether it's trying to green the oil and gas sector and looking at transformative technologies to sharply reduce GHG emissions, whether it's looking at transportation where we have a number of efforts trying to electrify the fleet and making this more and more commonplace—and we're starting to see it in our streets—or whether it's working on energy efficiency and looking at net-zero solutions for both residences and commercial buildings. We're pursuing this with vigour.

We are certainly keenly aware of it. Another part of our mandate is looking at the impact on the country of adaptation to climate change. It's not just from reports that we are getting some warning signals, but we actually see it on the ground, affecting our north, our communities. As we've seen in the flooding season again this past spring, there is a very real impact on our population.

Of course, there are reasons to be preoccupied. There are also reasons to be optimistic that Canada will be among the leaders in trying to drive to that low-carbon future. Again, during the ministerial meetings every month, there is an opportunity for all of us to share what we can do in terms of technology, partnerships, and new financing modes, so that we can bring the private sector to help us engineer that transition.

We are pursuing this with vigour, but with humility as well, recognizing that there's a lot more to be done to get to the kind of medium-term target that the IPCC is driving us toward. When thinking of those minus 40%, minus 50% GHG reductions by the year 2050, we'll need to redouble our efforts in the years to come, for sure.

4:55 p.m.

NDP

Richard Cannings NDP South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC

I'm sure that we'll be needing oil and gas for years to come. I'm not confused about that.

However, here we are saying that we have to use less and less, and we're doing all we can to produce more and more. That's the conundrum that I face, and when I hear this testimony, it doesn't go away.

Thank you.

4:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal James Maloney

You have about 20 seconds left. Mr. Whalen tells me he has a very intriguing question to ask.

Ask it very quickly.

4:55 p.m.

Liberal

Nick Whalen Liberal St. John's East, NL

Mr. Evans, we talked earlier about the NEB's projections for future production capacity. It seems to me that it's one of those instances where there's a lot of yin and yang between distribution capacity and expected production. There's no strategic petroleum reserve or a place to store large amounts of oil in Alberta to provide that buffer so that people can ramp up their production beyond what's available for distribution beyond the province.

Is there capacity for oil and gas to be expanded beyond the current distribution capacity? Would the NEB be in a position where...? Did the report mention that production could expand beyond the forecasted distribution amounts but that it cannot, because there's nowhere to store the oil?

4:55 p.m.

Senior Director, Pipelines, Gas and LNG, Energy Sector, Petroleum Resources Branch, Department of Natural Resources

Chris Evans

When the NEB is making those forecasts, it provides more than one case, so we use the reference case as the baseline. It takes into account a lot of factors at a high level, and I'm not privy to everything used in balancing out how it arrives at its forecasts. I can't specifically address the storage issue.

However, we do know that in Alberta, they often speak about how much petroleum product they can store right now. Sometimes, you'll see references in the papers to storage in the 30-million barrel range.

I don't know how the NEB, in particular, would factor storage into its forecasting. I'm sorry.

4:55 p.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal James Maloney

Thank you.

That takes us to the end of the meeting.

Thank you all very much for joining us today. I appreciate the update. I think everybody will agree that it was very helpful and very informative.

We will see everybody on Thursday at 3:30.