Natural Resources Committee on June 6th, 2016

[TJ Harvey, Liberal, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

That would further benchmark things that are being done within the industry right now to create best practices that wouldn't have to be built upon on an individual basis. Is that what you are saying?

[Marian Campbell Jarvis]

Mr. Chair, I think what is happening now is that a company, on its own, will look at a challenge it has and then try to invest and tackle that challenge, but that challenge is likely replicated in other mine sites across the country, and rather than piecemeal, ad hoc solutions, could there perhaps be an industry-wide approach that would make more effective use of resources.

[TJ Harvey, Liberal, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

The context of my question is that there is a proposed mining site in my riding. They have spent seven and a half years developing the site, and they have spent $55 million. I met with them last week. They are not complaining about the due process. They recognize that due diligence needs to be done on the environmental side and first nations consultation, but they were saying that what they would like to see come out of their experience is that, if there were other mining operations that had similar time frames, over a period of time something similar to what you are talking about would result from that, that we would find a more innovative way to take the collective data that has been garnered from these individual projects and find a smoother process.

My other question, really quickly, isn't on anything you talked about today. Historically, agriculture and mining have shared one common impediment to marketing their product, and that is rail transportation and access to market by rail. I am wondering if you have any expertise at all, any knowledge as to.... As the mining sector grows, do you see access to rail transportation as a major impediment to the marketability of natural resource based products?

[Marian Campbell Jarvis]

Mr. Chair, I am aware that a number of companies and industry associations identify transportation, rail in particular, as a high cost that impedes their competitiveness.

[TJ Harvey, Liberal, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Disregarding cost, do they ever talk about access to the volume that would be required as the mining sector grows?

[Marian Campbell Jarvis]

Mr. Chair, I'm sorry, but I don't have any data that would indicate whether it's going to be a growing cost. I'm only aware, as industry has told us, that it is a significant cost in their operations, but I don't have information on the trend line.

[TJ Harvey, Liberal, Tobique—Mactaquac, NB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

You have two minutes left. I'm going to use it to ask a couple of questions.

Thank you for your presentation.

I see some of the remarks about funding. People I speak to in the industry seem to have a consistent theme, that they were having trouble accessing investment funds, at least on a large scale. They can get seed capital, but before they can get large investments, they need evidence that the projects are going to produce something or advance to further stages.

Do you have any ideas on how industry or government can try to loosen up capital for the mining sector?

[Marian Campbell Jarvis]

The government would have a few different levers to loosen up some of the capital. One is the investments in geoscience, the GEM program that was discussed earlier. When GEM releases information on geoscience, it reduces the risk and that often inspires investment in the mining sector on the basis of the data availability.

Other mechanisms the committee has mentioned, the flow-through shares and the METC, have all supported investment in mining. The METC has generated about $5.5 billion in exploration investments since it was first launched.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Thank you.

That's all my time.

Mr. Barlow.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Do you need more time?

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

I'll be good.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

I have a large coal mine operation in the southern end of my constituency, southern Alberta and southern B.C., and you're talking about some of the issues impacting the mining industry. A lot of the easily accessible reserves are gone. Is access to those reserves also an issue if they're on crown land or provincial land?

There are 100,000 hectares they're trying to access in that area. The federal government said last year or two years ago that they were going to sell it, and then they backed off, but maybe it's the social licence part.

[Marian Campbell Jarvis]

I'm aware that the Prospectors and Developers Association of Canada have done a study, and they consistently identify access to land for exploration as one of their top challenges.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

I know with our climate, weather, terrain, there are lots of those issues, but is it—and I hate using this term—a social licence aspect that's blocking that access or is it our topography or maybe a bit of both?

[Marian Campbell Jarvis]

I don't have the full details on all that, but I am aware that there is not one single factor. There are a range of issues and considerations and complications. However, if the committee is interested, I could certainly send a link so you can find out easily from some of the work that the Prospectors and Developers Association of Canada has undertaken.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

I'm going to pick up on our chair's line of questioning.

This committee is trying to find out what the federal government can do to improve the long-term sustainability of these industries. If we are looking at securing federal funding, whether it's grants or providing seed dollars, we want the private sector to be driving that at all times. We don't want to be a crutch for the private sector. When we look at trying to get away from coal-fired power plants, for example, there's a coal mine near Hanna, Alberta, and those people are quite panicked, but they're just going to have to go somewhere else. How would you look at us directing federal funding? Should it be to certain sectors of the mining industry? How do you think this should be framed?

[Marian Campbell Jarvis]

At Natural Resources Canada, we have a green mining initiative, and there is an industry advisory body. A lot of our science and technology and research and development is aimed at informing regulations, informing EA, but another part of our work is to help the mining industry develop more sustainably, more responsibly.

The project I mentioned on rare earth elements and chromite is industry-driven. CanmetMining worked in partnership with others. We asked industry what the needs were to move forward in this area. It's not just us in our labs thinking what might be useful. We want to find out what will actually make a difference on the ground, in industry, in real time.

Those are two examples.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

We've had some meetings with the oil and gas sector, and you still see some significant dollars invested in innovation and research. I'm assuming the mining companies are doing the same, or have they had to scale back in what they invest on their own?

[Marian Campbell Jarvis]

I don't believe mining companies are on the same scale as the oil and gas sector. From some of the metrics I've seen, oil and gas is about four times that of mining.

[John Barlow, Conservative, Foothills, AB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Mr. McLeod.

[Michael McLeod, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

Thank you.

Thank you, Ms. Jarvis, for your presentation. I'd really like to get a copy of your speaking notes, if that's possible.

In my opinion, of all the non-renewable resource development areas, the mining industry has really learned how to deal with aboriginal people, especially in the Northwest Territories. I've worked with regulatory boards and watched as assessments were made on environmental fronts and on the inclusion of aboriginal people. The mining industry, especially the diamond mines, has done an excellent job. They've become experts on how to consult with aboriginal communities. They involve aboriginal people right from the initial exploration stage. They sign impact benefit agreements. In the Northwest Territories, 50% of our boards are aboriginal. There are also community boards, regional boards that have hearings, so there's a lot of opportunity for input.

They've established environmental oversight committees that take frequent visits to the sites. They also bring elders to see first-hand what a mine looks like. For most people, and most aboriginal people, it's an education process that's required. That goes for all other areas, including oil and gas and others, because it's new for us. We have socio-economic agreements with the territorial government, which monitors hiring percentages. There are a number of things they monitor and talk about on a regular basis. They have literacy courses right on-site that help aboriginal people and others. It's not restricted to aboriginal people; it's for people with low literacy.

They do a lot of things right, in my opinion, and I think the opinion of many others who really took a good assessment of it. The end results are showing that we're having really good hiring levels in the communities. There are still huge pockets of unemployment in the north, but in the immediate area of the mines, it's working well. Regarding the courses that are available, the mines hire at least 95% of the people who graduate.

Is there a plan for further investment in the aboriginal population to help them with the ability to work in the mines, in terms of training, in terms of educating them to develop their skills? Right now most of the responsibility falls on the companies, and it is fairly costly, but I think the government has a role to play on that front too.

[Marian Campbell Jarvis]

Mr. Chair, we've done a compilation of good practices in community engagement, and the committee may be interested in some of those success stories and good practices that highlight some of the same examples the member was referring to in terms of success with aboriginal participation and employment in the mineral development industry. From a whole-of-government perspective, although I certainly can't speak for the whole of government as an official with Natural Resources Canada, I am aware of efforts by colleagues in Employment and Social Development Canada to support aboriginal training and development, and some of that is targeted toward mining.

In the Ring of Fire region, there have been a number of programs supported by Indigenous and Northern Affairs Canada and the Federal Economic Development Initiative for Northern Ontario.

At Natural Resources Canada we have focused more on natural resources literacy, so that indigenous people know what to expect when the geologist shows up, what it means and what the opportunities are. We've produced a number of tools and partnered with a number of aboriginal organizations across the country to support that, and that work has been very well received.

[Michael McLeod, Liberal, Northwest Territories, NT]

Mr. Chairman, I was hoping we would hear more of how we could prepare people to work in the industry, rather than providing literature, most of which already exists.

I'm glad to hear you're looking at best practices, but I don't see it reflected. I see it in the Northwest Territories, where we have 50% of the regulatory boards made up of aboriginal people representing aboriginal government, and it works well.

I don't see that at the national level. I don't see NEB, for example, with any aboriginal—no, in their last presentation I think they said they'd hired one person, or they brought on one person. Are there any plans to be more inclusive when we talk about dealing with aboriginal people, rather than talking toward them, bringing them into the fold, into the process?