My view would be that the federal government engagement needs to be coordinated between departments much more effectively than it has been. First nations have to fill out forms every time they file for an application, whether it's for FedNor, INAC, the Department of Health, or whatever it is. It's becoming quite burdensome on communities, because they simply don't have the capacity to engage as much as they're being asked to engage. That is one of the practical challenges being faced.
I think the problem goes back to the fact that, under the crown's interpretation of the treaties, lands were surrendered to the crown, whether federal or provincial. In the case of Ontario, it's provincial. That's not the interpretation of any of the treaty chiefs now, as you will know if you talk to any of them in Ontario or right across the country, all the numbered treaties. So one of the ironies is that there's actually been better experience in engaging with the companies and with governments outside the treaty territories, which means we had more breakthroughs in Quebec and British Columbia, for example, and in the territories, as Stephen has pointed out, than we've had in any of the provinces that are covered by treaties. As you know, most of the landmass south of 60 is covered by the numbered treaties.
So I really think it's crucial for the federal government, without getting too complicated about it, to begin to address this problem with the provinces on a really practical basis, to say, look, we have this issue of engagement; we have the view of the first nations that their scope and jurisdiction extends well beyond what the crown has historically considered to be the case; so we have to create a new partnership.
I'll just give you an example. As Stephen described, they have co-management boards in Nunavut and in the Northwest Territories that are dealing with huge issues of land management. There's no such institution in Ontario. Now, there may be, as a result of the regional framework—we may be able to get there—but like all negotiations, they take a lot of time.
Therefore, I would suggest, respectfully, that the federal government could start to look at some particular developments in the old numbered treaties and ask how it can actually make some better progress and improve the relationships. Frankly, these are the poorest people in the country. If you look at who are the worst-off people, you'd have to say it's the people who are living in remote communities in the provinces where neither government has been particularly determined to exercise its responsibilities. We have to figure out a way to do it better. That means a much greater engagement by the federal government in working with the provinces.
The provinces are critically important. They have the revenue from all the resource development. They have the historic jurisdiction in controlling and managing land, and hunting, resource issues, fishing, and all of that. There's MNR and MNDM. These are big ministries in Ontario. They have huge responsibilities. We really have to move to a new relationship in terms of how that works out. I think the federal government has to be at that table in helping us to do that.