Evidence of meeting #56 for Natural Resources in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was technology.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:20 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal James Maloney
Thank you very much.
Ms. Stubbs, we'll go over to you for five minutes to use your time as you see fit.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Shannon Stubbs Conservative Lakeland, AB
Thank you. I appreciate that.
Thanks to all of the witnesses for coming back again today. I think we all appreciate the time you're taking out of your lives and out of your businesses to provide this important testimony for policy-makers and legislators to consider.
I just want to say that both of you have touched on this issue of a definition around clean tech. We've heard that from witnesses previously throughout the course of this study, in terms of wanting some specifics around the definition of clean tech, both for the purposes of this report and also for the future, for the fiscal and policy decisions government might make with regard to so-called de-risking the adoption of clean tech.
You guys had mentioned that, I think, at least for the Conservatives around the table, we do often also ask how government de-risks the adoption of clean tech and we hear that taxpayers absorb risk, rather than innovators and risk-takers and experts in the industry who know best the innovation and technology advancements that will drive the future of Canada's already world-leading environmentally and socially responsible oil and gas and other natural resources development.
On that note, in the last committee meeting, I asked the current Minister of Natural Resources directly whether or not he believed that Canadian oil and gas was the most environmentally and socially responsible oil and gas in the world. While he, about 30 seconds prior, had just rightfully been pointing out on a number of measures the way that Canadian mining is first in class in the world in terms of environmental stewardship, engagement and participation of first nations people, benefits to communities, and positive impacts on the standard of living for communities right across Canada, suddenly when I asked him the question about oil and gas, he wanted to know specifics around metrics and said he couldn't answer the question, wasn't sure, and then proceeded to talk all around it, rather than saying that Canadian oil and gas is the most environmentally and socially responsible in the world.
Michael, since you mentioned that issue in your opening remarks, and you touched on this notion of doing international benchmarking studies in order to be able to make this case on Canada's behalf, I just invite you to expand on that and any specifics you'd like to add in terms of Canada's role in the global context as a world-leading oil and gas producer.
4:25 p.m.
Chairman, Quebec Oil and Gas Association
The Canadian Association of Petroleum Producers has issued one benchmarking study comparing the efficacy and strictness of Canadian regulations on oil and gas to many other jurisdictions in the world, and Canada came out on top in that study, including being stricter and more effective than Norway, so there's one.
Certainly one thing that I've been saying to the Alberta energy regulator every time I can get a chance to talk to them, having worked all around the world myself, is that I think Alberta is one of the best regulated, if not the best regulated, jurisdiction in the world. But it would sure be nice if they would do the benchmarking, not only to improve their own performance but to be able to prove what we all believe to be true.
I think that investment is a critical investment and it will help to make us better, so going from best to even better than best is something that we can achieve through that process.
Also, when I talk about benchmarking studies, I was talking about Canada's comparative advantage in carbon. I think a lot of our resource industry—and I'm not going to say every single segment has a comparative advantage in carbon, but I think most of them likely do. One that I know for sure is the Canadian aluminum sector, with two tonnes of carbon for every tonne of aluminum. America produces 11 tonnes of carbon for every tonne of aluminum. We have a 500% advantage in carbon, and we need to know where we have that advantage so we don't end up putting taxes on the best, while the worst continues to produce even more.
4:25 p.m.
Conservative
Shannon Stubbs Conservative Lakeland, AB
Right, and piling taxes and costs on developers and producers who are already doing the best in the world just makes things harder for them, and I think ends up in this perverse situation where sometimes the outcome of public policy is the very opposite of what the proponents of public policy say they want to achieve.
Michael, last month you wrote an article entitled “Common Sense Climate Policy”, and you highlighted three key issues for policy-makers to address as you've outlined a global impacts approach to climate.
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal James Maloney
I'm going to have to stop you there. We're out of time. I'm sorry.
Mr. Tan, we'll go over to you for the last five minutes.
4:25 p.m.
Liberal
Geng Tan Liberal Don Valley North, ON
Okay, thanks.
Evergreen, I'm very interested in your product MegaSol. It looks very promising, based on the notes you provided to us.
What is the share of your product in this chemical degreasing market?
4:30 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Evergreen Solutions Corp.
Did you ask about the market share?
4:30 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Evergreen Solutions Corp.
As we discussed, we designed that chemistry, specifically for Suncor Energy. They brought us in to do R and D work, and we developed that chemistry specifically for their oil sands operations.
Over the past 13 years, just looking at the oil sands specifically, we probably have about 75% to 80% market share right now within that narrow segment. Of course it has taken on tremendous commercial value outside the oil sands as well. We were involved in a wide range of large plant shutdowns and turnaround projects. Of course it's also very extensively used south of the border.
May 11th, 2017 / 4:30 p.m.
Liberal
Geng Tan Liberal Don Valley North, ON
The performance of your product looks very good in reducing the amount of chemical used and reducing clean time. What is the cost of processing the chemicals that have been washed off from the equipment by using your technology compared with other commercial technologies?
4:30 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Evergreen Solutions Corp.
Do you want to speak about the cost?
4:30 p.m.
Vice-President Technology, Evergreen Solutions Corp.
We did recent audits of the sites up there, comparing current practices, products they're using, procedures, and things like that. I don't know their total operational cost for their wash days, cleaning, and things like that, but for one of them we identified $7 million in annual savings, which they could have by adjusting their procedures according to some of our recommendations. For one of the other sites, it was $5.5 million. That's just a portion of what they spend in those areas, and obviously that's not all chemical. There's labour, equipment downtime, things like that, and savings they can achieve by optimizing some of their operations according to our recommendations and implementing our chemicals in other locations.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
Geng Tan Liberal Don Valley North, ON
Is there a need to separate your MegaSol chemical from other grease or oil chemicals—I don't know what chemical it is—or just that you put them together, process them, bury them, or store them somewhere?
4:30 p.m.
Vice-President Technology, Evergreen Solutions Corp.
The MegaSol itself will biodegrade 100% within a month. A lot of these plants will recycle water, so when they send it back out to tailings within a month it will completely biodegrade and be gone.
4:30 p.m.
Vice-President Technology, Evergreen Solutions Corp.
Yes. It's a blend of different components, but, yes, they're solvents.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
Mary Ng Liberal Markham—Thornhill, ON
My question is really quick to finish off the conversation we had a little earlier. If I understand correctly, you're suggesting we think about or consider or recommend adding a component to SR and ED and essentially create an incentive in that application for companies like yours and other clean techs to incentivize the use of clean tech products like yours. That was the incentive you were talking about.
I just wanted to close out that point because we ran out of time earlier.
4:30 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Evergreen Solutions Corp.
Yes, that's exactly the idea we'd like to propose. We would like to see SR and ED have an additional category specifically for clean technology that would offer even a marginal premium to producers, and also potentially to be engaged by adopters of technology as well. They could apply for SR and ED credits with regard to the costs associated with adopting new clean chemical technology, further incentivizing them to bring it in.
We saw that potential even with Teck coal. That certainly could have had an impact on that project, which we shared as an example as a miss for us.
4:35 p.m.
Vice-President Technology, Evergreen Solutions Corp.
Even for Suncor, with development of MegaSol, they had to invest an awful lot of their employee time, and take time in their wash phase and things like that to allow us to come on site and do that work. There was a lot of involvement there on their side.
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal James Maloney
Thank you very much.
That's all the time we have. I would like to thank the three of you for appearing before the committee and for trying to do it twice.
We're going to suspend the meeting for a few moments and let you gentlemen go on your way. Again, thank you very much for taking the time out to join us today.
[Proceedings continue in camera]