Natural Resources Committee on Feb. 1st, 2018

[Greg Stewart]

Largely, yes. There are a number of different biomass swaps that go on between various operations in this region to optimize the transportation costs of getting the product to those sites. With the elimination of the beehive burners, it required that we basically be able to handle our biomass. In the past, if you had a beehive burner, you had extra residuals. You would probably be looking to landfill some of that material.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Okay.

[Greg Stewart]

Today, with the strong bioenergy or bioeconomy, it's giving other options. Whether it be combined heat and power projects, pellet plants, or our own energy systems, we're able to consume the volume.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

The residue from that is ashes. What do you do with the ashes?

[Greg Stewart]

There are a number of things that we're looking at. I believe we actually end up landfilling some of the ash, but I know there have been projects up at the University of Northern British Columbia looking at how to use ash as a potential fertilizer .

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Okay, very good.

Outside the partnerships you have with municipal partners, has your company had to utilize any government grants or subsidies to do what you're doing?

[Greg Stewart]

We certainly don't use the word “subsidy” in this industry. But as far as grants go, the Nechako green energy process that we have, which utilizes some of the waste heat to generate electricity for our site, was a project initiated using B.C. Hydro's funding as part of their conservation effort. The idea was that by utilizing that wasted heat and generating the electricity that we do on site, we reduce our overall load on the utility for providing electricity. That's under their conservation program. I know that in the partnerships we've had with first nations and the City of Prince George, our partners were able to access government funding that enabled those projects to go ahead. We have not accessed the funding, but obviously we pay close attention to a lot of the funding mechanisms that Mr. Minhas talked about, whether it be IFIT or other like programs.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Good. I appreciate your testimony.

It's over to Mr. Schmale.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Falk. It's very nice of you.

Mr. Stewart, I might as well start with you. I'll read you this headline from the Financial Post. I'm sorry, Mr. Serré, it's not from the CBC. It says, “Climate crusaders are close to banning something that can save your family's life”. It goes on to say, “In Montreal, beginning in October [of this year], no traditional fireplace or wood stove 'may be used or left to be used' by any resident, according to a new city bylaw.” It also goes on to say that in Metro Vancouver they're “in the midst of a public consultation regarding its own proposed ban on fireplaces and wood stoves.” If approved, Vancouver residents in the metro area “would be required to register all wood-burning devices by 2022...as in Montreal...fireplaces and stoves would be ineligible for registration. In 2025, it would become illegal to use any unregistered wood-burning system...”.

First of all, I find that quite concerning because these activists would rather you freeze to death in the event of a power outage than use something they disagree with. However, you had said that you also are advocating for more wood pellets with government. Aren't you concerned that if the government can advocate for your industry, it can also, in this case, work against it?

[Greg Stewart]

I think the simple answer is yes. The opportunity around regulation can go both ways. We've certainly seen the impact of that. I'm not familiar with the details of that particular report you are referring to, but I would be interested in seeing exactly what it is referring to. I know that pellet stoves, for example, which are used for home heating, have been adopted extensively in Europe, and I know that in northeastern U.S. there is a very strong network of homes being heated by wood pellets. Those facilities do burn quite cleanly. I know that Prince George, with its air-sensitive climate, has dealt with wood-burning stoves. However, the reality is that in our facility, we put the electrostatic precipitator in with the City of Prince George. We make sure that we're able to address those concerns.

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

But you see the dangers of governments picking winners and losers here, instead of letting the market decide. You see what government power can do here.

[Greg Stewart]

Absolutely. I, by no means—

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Even by force, by fine or jail, it can determine behaviour. They should be enhancing our freedoms, not controlling us through the tax code.

[Greg Stewart]

Fair, but I don't have the information on the tax code—

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

No, for sure. That was more a statement. My time is running out. That's why I said that. It was more a statement than a question.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Actually, it's past the answer time—

[Jamie Schmale, Conservative, Haliburton—Kawartha Lakes—Brock, ON]

Yes, I know. That's why I needed to get that in.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Mr. Cannings.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Thanks to both of you for being here today.

I want to start with you, Mr. Minhas, and talk about how you're in the very early stages of developing a product. This sounds very encouraging. It's a very interesting product.

I wonder if you could give me where you see this in 20 years, say, if everything goes very well for your company and for the product. I'm asking because I have a Mercer plant in my riding, in Castlegar. I'm wondering how the production of this product links with Mercer mills, Resolute mills, and the Resolute mill across the river here. What proportion of their output, if any, would go into this? Could you give me a deep-in-the-future look at where you hope things go?

[Gurminder Minhas]

Yes. The primary feedstock right now for our process is northern bleached softwood kraft pulp, or NBSK. Both Mercer and Resolute are major producers of this, but we envision our facilities being less linked to pulp mills and more linked to the end-user markets. Because we are creating a specialty market, we're not going to be talking about tonnes of material produced. We're going to be talking about kilograms. It's going to be similar to a specialty chemical plant, more so than to a pulp mill.

We envision having satellite plants where we would bring feedstock—ideally from the parent companies, because they do have production globally—into these satellite plants and then having these plants serve specific markets. The plant we're designing right now is intended to serve all the key markets that we're developing, some of which I've highlighted, but we do expect to get to a certain volume point where that plant, being the first plant, will basically run out of capacity. Then, as our markets and the volume develop, we will have specialized plants to serve, for example, the concrete sector. We'll have a specialized plant to serve the plastics sector. Filtration media could be another opportunity.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Thank you.

I'll turn to you, Mr. Stewart. That was a very interesting presentation. I was just in Prince George at the natural resources forum. I don't know if the civic centre there is heated with your heat, but you said the pool next door was?

Suddenly we can't hear you, so....

[A voice]

We've lost him.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

[Technical difficulty—Editor]

[Greg Stewart]

I was just saying yes, the civic centre is heated by us.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Okay. Just out of curiosity, how far away is the heating plant that pipes the glycol? I'm curious as to the physical aspects.