Natural Resources Committee on Feb. 8th, 2018

[Sian Barraclough]

At this point, I think we've engaged on a couple of levels with indigenous groups. First, potential biomass fuel suppliers have approached us who, of their own initiative, are looking at projects to undertake. Second, we've certainly had engagement with indigenous groups in proximity of the mills and our Genesee plant.

The primary area where we see the opportunity for indigenous jobs in our project is on the trucking side, so we'd be looking to engage indigenous-owned trucking companies, companies that would use indigenous employment, and those kinds of things.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Are indigenous companies coming forward and investing with you as a partnership?

[Sian Barraclough]

That's the potential. We aren't that far down the road yet, but there is the potential for us to do some kind of equity investment.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Mr. Madlung, we need more of you in this country. You probably don't sleep. You're an innovator. That woven fibre, what's it used for?

You're trying to work with the automotive industry. You're probably too small and they shut you out. All of a sudden, we see what you have in front of you, and it's pretty innovative. Can you talk about that? You and your wife put your necks out and invested, you said, millions of dollars, and sometimes I'm sure you don't sleep and you're up at four in the morning wondering what the hell you're doing.

[Dan Madlung]

The honest part is that I didn't sleep when I retired because I had too much energy.

The automotive side is a good one, but I might go around your question a bit here.

It's important to realize that the value chain is very immature. The processing part of the industry to get the fibres we need is very immature. We need to develop that in the industry, and it will be taking place here very shortly, either through myself or somebody else.

Then there's our plant, and then there's the secondary processing for.... Let's say we decided to make insulation—that's a huge market—or we do a fibreglass replacement; that requires another factory. There is investor interest in that, and we will deliver on it, but the trick is that this whole area is very immature, whether it's refining wood fibre or refining hemp or flax. When we get that maturity, it will open up a lot of markets, such as the aerospace industry or making bulletproof vests for the military. We've had all those inquiries.

This fibre is very strong, and it can be engineered. How do we go about that? There are different ways that I've done it. One is through a team. I have a team that develops products, but I limit them to four products at one time. The secondary way I do that is to invite other innovators to use our equipment and develop their products, using natural fibres, and we enter into business arrangements afterwards.

For example, insulation is that way. I'll invite other innovators in because I don't have the time or energy or the people to do it and not focus on those four.

I'm not sure if I'm answering your question, but—

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Yes. I do have a question, because my time's running out here.

You mentioned hydroponic grow mats. Are you selling them to marijuana operations, or have you thought about it?

[Dan Madlung]

No, these are just for sprouts.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Okay.

[Dan Madlung]

They're for sprouts, but we're developing a full product to replace rockwool. That's the growing medium that would.... We're working with marijuana and hemp-growing companies.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Thank you.

Mr. Priddle, you had 1,500 pages of government forms over six years. Let's go through this again. Fifteen hundred pages of government forms to fill out over six years cost you over half a billion dollars in fees and other administration costs.

How can we get this deregulated so you don't have to go through this and have this grief for you and your company? You know, you mentioned right off the top that you're the only one left. Can you talk about the regulations and the red tape that you had to go through?

[Timothy Priddle]

Sure.

Probably about 10 years ago we decided we wanted to expand our plant. We saw market opportunities in Canada and elsewhere. We engaged with a consultant to help us with the process of getting a building permit. In Ottawa that's a very difficult thing to do.

We're in the forest industry. We understand trees, but I had to do a tree study, for instance, and we had to get a book written on what was a farmer's field 15 or 20 years ago. It had a few poplars on it, so we had to get an arborist to measure each tree and write a little description about it and so on. Things like that tend to irritate you.

We have more land out there now, and we have partners who want us to expand again. I'm trying to find the energy to get up and do that again. As a businessman, I often think it would be nice if governments were a little more innovative. I've lived in Ottawa for my whole life and I love the place, but I wish the City of Ottawa was a little bit more proactive in helping businesses grow and develop. Instead of having to go to eight different departments in the City of Ottawa to try and get a permit, they would have someone who would guide you through that process.

I could go on about the Ministry of the Environment for our dust collection system and so on, and how you just get lost in a big pile in Toronto somewhere. It's a real struggle. Very many companies would have more money, time, and energy to innovate if they didn't have to spend a lot of time on these things while they're trying to grow.

I fully understand the need to grow in a manner that respects the environment, etc., but there have to be easier ways to do it.

[Kevin Waugh, Conservative, Saskatoon—Grasswood, SK]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Mr. Cannings is next, and then that'll be it. We're going to have to do some committee business after that.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Thank you all for being here with us today.

Mr. Priddle, I'm from British Columbia and I was happy to hear you talking about new ways of building. You mentioned manufactured homes, siding, kits that people could put together in a few days to get around having to build in crappy weather. We can build the houses inside.

I have a number of operations in my riding that do just that. One I was just visiting had developed a new do-it-yourself house designed for use in the Arctic. You can fly in one of these kits in one plane-load, and it takes three days for teenagers to put it together. You don't have to wait for a journeyman to come in from other places.

That's just the tip of the iceberg. In my hometown, we have other manufactured homes and Structurlam buildings of engineered wood. I was wondering if you could comment on the future of how we're building homes.

[Timothy Priddle]

One of the big issues is labour shortages and young people. I don't want to pick on millennials, but they don't seem to like to work. They don't like getting involved in the trades. You probably won't believe me, but I was chatting with an Ottawa fencing contractor who does commercial fencing in Ottawa. He has three foremen, all making over $100,000 a year installing fencing. They've been working for him a long time, and he has to keep these guys because there's such a labour shortage.

This situation also affects tract builders. We work with a company in Ottawa called Caivan Development Corporation. They build 300 to 400 homes a year and they spend most of their time pulling their hair out trying to get stuff done properly and on time. They're seeing this labour shortage as a detriment to the whole industry. They're innovating and they want to partner with us in developing a system like that company in Edmonton, Acqbuilt, whereby we can build most of the components in a controlled environment with current technology, reducing costs and getting a house of better quality. I see that being forced on us because of the labour shortage—which is a good thing.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Yes, and I think it will create better houses.

[Timothy Priddle]

Definitely.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

This brings me to the international competition you mentioned. Could you expand on this business in Europe of disincentives for manufacturers of aluminum and vinyl siding?

[Timothy Priddle]

Sure.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

It was also a good thing for you, I guess.

[Timothy Priddle]

Yes.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Why isn't it happening here? What are the ups and downs of it?

[Timothy Priddle]

A lot of the European countries understand that wood siding is a renewable resource that comes from an industry interested in protecting the forest and itself. These European countries have become our best friends. Like us, they think wood siding—not vinyl or aluminum— is an environmentally sustainable way to build a house, and they have put a massive tax on vinyl and aluminum siding to promote the use of wood siding.

Nothing like that exists here. I love wood, and I call it the scourge of vinyl siding. You drive around parts of Ottawa and you can see blocks and blocks of three-sided vinyl homes, all clad with this nasty vinyl stuff. We have now found a couple of builders who are going to start using pre-finished siding on their homes as a regular thing, and they're hoping the consumer will understand that it's better and more beautiful. They're taking a huge risk, because it's costing them an extra $7,000 to $8,000 a house.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

I'll just mention to Mr. Whalen that I think that's one of the worst things that's happened in Newfoundland in the last 50 years: everybody moved from that beautiful wood siding to vinyl siding.

[Nick Whalen, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

Well, we're moving back, big time. I'm just doing it to my house right now. There's a move back to wood siding now. It's fantastic.