Evidence of meeting #11 for Natural Resources in the 43rd Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was forestry.
A recording is available from Parliament.
2:25 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal James Maloney
That completes the first hour of the first round. We're not going to have time for all of the second round, so I'm proposing that we do Mr. Patzer next, then Mr. Waugh, Mr. Simard and Mr. Cannings. We'll stop there because we need some time today for the other business, but I would like to try to make up a little time with the witnesses for our earlier interventions.
On that basis, Mr. Patzer, you have the floor for five minutes.
2:25 p.m.
Conservative
Jeremy Patzer Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I'll start with you, Mr. Beck. Your company does work with tree planting in some regard. Do you have any advice or observations for the government's plan to plant two billion trees?
2:25 p.m.
Operations Manager, Capacity Forest Management Ltd.
Right now, two billion trees is going to be quite difficult when you have other licence holders and only a certain number of greenhouses to produce those seedlings. What we're looking at right now is that Canada usually plants about 600 million trees a year across Canada. In B.C. alone, it's 250 million. To have the infrastructure there to plant those two billion trees within 10 years is going to be quite difficult and quite challenging to achieve.
2:25 p.m.
Conservative
Jeremy Patzer Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK
Okay.
Going back to the issue around stumpage, there are different barriers that a first nation would be facing if they're looking to get involved in the forestry sector. Then there's the lack of a softwood lumber deal. There seem to be a lot of different barriers facing people. Given how far it's getting to be to transport to a mill, how big a hurdle are these things becoming for somebody who's looking to enter the forestry sector?
2:25 p.m.
Operations Manager, Capacity Forest Management Ltd.
The biggest hurdle right now, again, as Mr. Orr and I have already noted, is acquiring forest tenure for first nations. It is one of the toughest things. During these timber supply reviews, the government needs to apportion more volume to first nations to allow them to get into the forestry market and the forestry economics aspect of things.
With regard to the hauling aspect, we're getting pushed further and further out or we're getting pushed into more sensitive visual landscape units where it's more difficult to have cuts over 40 hectares and more difficult to achieve the forest health aspect by mitigating the effects of the beetle or wildfire by acquiring the dead timber before it becomes dead useless. Those are some of the major challenges, but hauling businesses are becoming a factor, with fuel costs and with carbon taxation. It's starting to really impact a lot of the operations.
2:25 p.m.
Conservative
Jeremy Patzer Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK
I have another quick question here too, in regard to investment. Are there any issues with foreign investment or with competing with foreign interests? Is there any interference being run in Canadian forestry by foreign interests that would prevent somebody from starting up in the forestry sector or starting a new mill somewhere? Are there any issues with foreign interests?
2:30 p.m.
Operations Manager, Capacity Forest Management Ltd.
Not that I am really aware of. I don't know if Mr. Orr would have any comment on that.
2:30 p.m.
Indigenous Relations, As an Individual
From my previous dealings with foreign interests, I think they don't always have the same ideology as the community, and that has posed a bit of a challenge. We were able to develop some relationships when we were operating Duz Cho Forest Products, and we developed those relationships so that we could ship that fibre over to China.
There is opportunity, but it usually takes a long time to develop, and if it's not maintained, it's hard to get it going again.
2:30 p.m.
Conservative
Jeremy Patzer Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK
I have a question for both of you.
The clean fuel standard is adding another barrier as well. Have you guys done any cost analysis on how the clean fuel standard is going to affect transportation costs, especially as our mills are getting pushed further and further away with closures?
2:30 p.m.
Operations Manager, Capacity Forest Management Ltd.
No, we haven't done any analysis yet, but it is on the horizon to start looking at it as part of the performance and net profit and revenue share for the first nations forestry businesses that we work with.
2:30 p.m.
Conservative
2:30 p.m.
Conservative
2:30 p.m.
Liberal
2:30 p.m.
Liberal
Patrick Weiler Liberal West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I'd like to thank both the witnesses for joining our committee today and for their patience earlier on.
My first question is to Mr. Beck.
You mentioned some of the first nations that you've been working with, and one of them in my riding, the Shíshálh Nation, has a foundation agreement with the province. You mentioned another one in Lake Babine, I think.
Given that in B.C. there are very few treaties, it's likely that there may be more and more of these types of foundation agreements as the province is looking toward reconciliation. With this in mind, given that this is a provincial and first nations agreement, what advice would you have for the federal government here on ensuring that the federal government could help maximize some of the opportunities for first nations in the forestry sector as some of these agreements are being put together?
2:30 p.m.
Operations Manager, Capacity Forest Management Ltd.
You're right. Shíshálh and Lake Babine Nation were the two that we worked with. We're working on further ones that are in the reconciliation process with the provincial government, but we're also looking to the federal government to provide some grant funding or money to maybe purchase more forest tenure.
We are also looking to the federal government to possibly provide forestry infrastructure, as well as to create some avenues or training dollars for some of these first nation communities. There may be people in these communities who are interested in becoming a forester or who are looking into becoming a forestry skidder operator or a loaderman. They may even be interested in getting into the trucking industry.
Some of the aspects of these foundation agreements will be very important for first nations, and it will be important for the federal government to provide some grant funding.
2:30 p.m.
Liberal
Patrick Weiler Liberal West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC
Thank you.
To follow on my colleague Mr. Patzer's earlier question, we have made a pretty ambitious plan to plant two billion trees across the province. I know your company is involved in providing services in working with first nations on this plan. I'm wondering if you could provide some advice on the best way for the federal government to partner with indigenous peoples to ensure this commitment is realized.
February 5th, 2021 / 2:30 p.m.
Operations Manager, Capacity Forest Management Ltd.
The best way to ensure that you're involving first nations and first nation communities is to look at contacting some of the natural resource departments within some of these communities and to put out advertising that you're looking for tree planters. You could also look at the forestry management companies that are working with these first nation businesses and first nation communities to get the word out on employment and on why we're doing the tree planting.
2:30 p.m.
Liberal
Patrick Weiler Liberal West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC
Thank you, Mr. Beck.
I would like to ask the same question of Mr. Orr as well. How best could the federal government partner with indigenous peoples on this fund for planting two billion trees?
2:35 p.m.
Indigenous Relations, As an Individual
I think it has to go with the communication piece that Mr. Beck talked about to reach the community and provide them with the opportunity. I know from my previous dealings with McLeod Lake that we planted 1.6 million trees annually just on our own forested lands, so there is some ability to be of assistance in that. I think a lot of the other communities may or may not have opportunities to be a part of that, and I would assume they would be very interested.
2:35 p.m.
Liberal
Patrick Weiler Liberal West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC
Thank you for that.
One thing that's come up in just about every committee meeting we've had on the study is the challenge with the burning of slash piles. Mr. Orr, you brought that up in your testimony earlier on. One of the programs that we have running through NRCan from the federal government is the investing in forestry industry transformation program. Part of its aim is to create a more competitive and resilient forestry sector, with a focus on low-carbon projects that result in new and diversified revenue streams.
There are so many successful projects out there that use forest residues and wood by-products to commercialize innovative products. I'm wondering if you've had any experience working with this program that you could share with the committee.
2:35 p.m.
Indigenous Relations, As an Individual
No, I haven't, and I'm not informed about it at the moment. I haven't had any experience with it, but I do know that during our time, being able to access funds for plant development and increased production was a goal of ours. We were trying to find the money to help promote our path forward. As I said, it was usually a small portion, and lots of times there were strings attached. It can be quite complicated, but we did the best we could at the time.
2:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal James Maloney
Thank you, Mr. Orr. Thank you, Mr. Weiler. That's all the time we have.
We have two members left. Mr. Simard and Mr. Cannings, you'll each get two and a half minutes, starting with Mr. Simard.
2:35 p.m.
Bloc
Mario Simard Bloc Jonquière, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Earlier, when we left off with Mr. Orr, we were talking about value-added production and the federal IFIT program, which is barely or not available.
One measure that could be interesting to develop value-added products is the idea of carbon footprint. If the federal government were to set an example in its procurement contracts by using the carbon footprint, perhaps the entire bioproducts chain, from biogas to bio-based plastics, would be given new life.
I'd like to know what you think about this, Mr. Orr.
2:35 p.m.
Indigenous Relations, As an Individual
I think it's come down to the fact that economics has been a major piece in the financial viability of bioplants, but I think, as you said, requiring some of the major licencees to use that or provide that for the proponents would be a benefit, because, as I said, the waste of the additional fibre supply just doesn't make sense anymore.
I think we have to find a way to utilize all of it, because we just have to change. I think there are some models in other countries that have replicated that, as I provided in a PowerPoint presentation. I do know some other individuals who are working towards making selective logging more efficient as well as profitable, so it is an option.