Natural Resources Committee on Nov. 30th, 2020

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Thanks, Mr. Zimmer.

I have Mr. Cannings and then Mr. McLean.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

It sounds as if we're all on the same page, and I want to question the witnesses.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Yes.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Mr. Chair, I would call the question.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Mr. McLean, you had your hand up.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

I think the question has been called, Mr. Chair, so I'm not sure if I have the floor.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

You don't. I just wanted to highlight the fact that you had your hand up.

Thank you.

Do we want to have a recorded vote on this?

[An hon. member]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Okay.

(Motion agreed to: yeas 11; nays 0)

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Decisiveness is what we like to see.

Mr. Zimmer, do you have some questions for our witnesses?

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Yes, I do. I'll take whatever time I have left.

Thanks, everybody, for that. It's much appreciated.

I have a question for Mr. Kurz.

I had a question for Mr. Nighbor when he was before the committee. I asked him about where we are in Canada.

I know that a lot of Canadians see a lot of trees. I fly over the country quite often and see all the forests beneath me.

There's a question that always comes to mind. Where are we in terms of what we produce carbon-wise versus what we sequester or sink naturally? Do you have a number for that? Where do we stand in Canada in terms of just our own geographical footprint?

[Dr. Werner Kurz]

The internationally reported estimate of the carbon emissions of the anthropogenic component—that's the human-caused component of emissions and removals in the managed forests, which is the area for which we have reporting obligations—in 2018 was 14 megatonnes.

The important aspect here is that, in addition, we have large emissions from forest fires, which are in the natural disturbance component of the internationally reported emissions. We have an unknown contribution of 118 million hectares of northern forests, that are not managed and that are outside the reporting obligations, for which we currently have no estimates.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Thank you for that, Mr. Kurz.

What I'm asking for is what we totally produce as a country, as a nation, in terms of carbon output, comparing it to what our forests actually bring in and sink.

You said 14 megatonnes. Does that mean we produce 14 megatonnes more than we sink?

[Dr. Werner Kurz]

We have to keep the numbers in perspective. The emissions from all other sectors are in the order of 570 million tonnes of CO2. The contribution of forests at the moment is small compared to that. The climate change impacts of wildfires on forests are very large and have been increasing in recent years.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Okay.

I have one last question. I know my time is very tight.

As a fellow British Columbian, I drive around our forests quite a bit. What I notice a lot is that we used to see a lot of red trees, which the pine beetle killed. Now we're seeing a lot of yellow trees, which the spruce beetle killed. My big concern is how we manage this problem.

What you just talked about, I'm concerned about as well: seeing what is a really good piece of timber that could be utilized in so many productive ways doesn't end up in the atmosphere. How do we manage those forests?

I know that our colleagues to the south in the U.S.—when I knew secretary of the interior Ryan Zinke—were managing their forests to really reduce forest fires.

I have just one last comment. How do you do that from your perspective? Maybe I'll ask it this way. In just a simple number, what is the contribution towards our megatonne total by wildfires every year in Canada?

[Dr. Werner Kurz]

It varies tremendously between years. We have years like 2020 where we have very few forest fires across Canada. Then we have years like 2017 and 2018 where we have very large areas.

The difference between—

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

What's a number? The 570 sticks out. What's an average?

[Dr. Werner Kurz]

In extreme years, forest fire emissions can exceed half of that value, 250 million tonnes of CO2 equivalent.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Wow. So, managing our forests could potentially—

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

I'm going to have to stop you there, Mr. Zimmer.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Okay.

Thank you, everybody.

Thanks, Mr. Kurz.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Mr. Weiler.

[Patrick Weiler, Liberal, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would like to thank all the witnesses for joining our meeting today.

I would like to pick up on some of the questions that my colleague Mr. Zimmer was asking Mr. Kurz.

One of the really important aspects that I think it's important to have clarity on here is the rate of carbon capture and storage by trees.

Mr. Kurz, in my understanding, trees begin to capture more carbon as they get older. I was wondering if you could speak about what age trees or forests generally need to be before they start rapidly increasing the amount of carbon they store. What type of implications should this have in terms of the types of forests we should seek to harvest and/or protect?

[Dr. Werner Kurz]

This is a very complex question. I will try to answer it very briefly.

First of all, the rate of carbon uptake of a forest stand increases with its age. It peaks, depending on which part of the country you're in, between, say, 50 and 150 years of age. On the west coast of British Columbia, that peak could be later. In the foothills of Alberta, it will be earlier.

Basically, the age of a forest determines the rate of carbon uptake, as well as the region where it grows, because that determines the overall growth rate and the maximum amount of biomass that a forest can retain.

[Patrick Weiler, Liberal, West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC]

Great. Thank you for that.

For my next question, I was hoping you could describe in a little more detail the new national forest carbon monitoring, accounting and reporting system. Also, could you describe how this will better account for GHG emissions from harvested wood products?