Natural Resources Committee on Dec. 4th, 2020

[Claude Villeneuve]

My answer will be very brief.

We have a CRIBIQ grant of more than $500,000 to work on the development of paper mill biosolids. This is a residue that was buried in the past. It produced a lot of greenhouse gases and has fertilizing value. In industrial ecology, we combine anhydrite, a by-product of aluminum, with paper mill biosolids and use it to increase the productivity of the blueberry industry, as well as to increase forest production in our plantations. We conduct fertilization tests in this way.

I'll now turn things over to the people from CRIBIQ.

[Mohammed Benyagoub]

The development of everything associated with using forest biomass to make industrial bioproducts began in the early 2000s. I'm talking much more about Quebec, but the same thing goes for Canada. At the beginning of the 2000s, it was more laboratory work, but today, most processes have been industrialized. We're starting to reap the benefits of all the investments made in the sector. So today, from forest biomass we can produce carbon fibres for use in the automotive and aeronautics industries, which is very important to the Quebec economy.

Our organization co-funds projects with some forestry companies and paper mills that have developed innovative materials for use in those industries. Companies have made investments, and paper mills have partnered with biotech companies to use paper mill de-inking sludge to produce bioplastics.

We have projects with Kruger and Domtar to develop products that can be used in food packaging. These projects are well underway. Some have even been launched on the market. We mustn't forget chemicals and forest extractables, which can be used in the health and hygiene sector. In a post-pandemic context, it's very important to mention that.

Mr. Bernier, did you want to add something?

[Roger Bernier]

I will add something very quickly.

It's also important to understand that wood is, among other things, cellulose, but cellulose is sugar. These are simple sugars that can be used in fermentation to produce other substances. Instead of using materials derived from petroleum, for example, we can use biomass materials. Biomass can be used to produce a number of high value-added products. They are called bio-based products.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

I'd like to ask a quick question to my friends from CRIBIQ.

We've already talked about possibly linking the forest industry and the chemical industry, which was your third recommendation. That could be very worthwhile, as I believe the Alberta oil and gas sector will have to go through a transition.

Do you feel that's possible, given that Alberta still has expertise in the petrochemical sector?

Could that expertise be applied to the bio-based products sector?

[Roger Bernier]

Mr. Benyagoub, would you like to respond?

[Mohammed Benyagoub]

Yes, in that case, it's called—

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Let's have a very brief answer, please.

[Mohammed Benyagoub]

In that case, it's called biorefinery. You could draw a parallel with petrochemical refining. Cracking and all the methods that can be used in that field can be carried over to everything involving value-added biomass. These are more or less the same technologies, and the two industries should talk to each other, because they are very complementary.

Bio-based products can even be used in the petrochemical industry, as Domtar does with nanocrystalline cellulose. These products can be used in oil extraction.

So it would be a really good idea for these two industries to talk to each other.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Thank you very much. Thanks, Mr. Simard.

Mr. Cannings, we'll move over to you for six minutes.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you all for being here today. As usual, I wish we had all day to talk to you.

Ms. Daviet, you talked about using the forest sector and the forest trade to maximize our climate action abilities and you also talked about the importance of biodiversity. There's a tension there, obviously. One of the reductions of impacts you mentioned was lengthening rotations. We had Dr. Kurz here in our last meeting. He mentioned that in the coastal British Columbia forests, the maximum carbon sequestration happening in those forests goes on until the trees are 150 years old or more, which is twice as long as the average rotation.

I'm wondering if you could talk about that tension. Let's put it this way: You also talked about non-timber values, and one of those might be carbon credits. We were talking about going to net zero by 2050. A lot of sectors were going to have trouble getting to net zero without some sort of carbon credits, I imagine. Maybe you could talk about the idea of using carbon credits to help fund the forest sector, and putting off those rotations to maximize our climate actions.

I hope that's clear enough.

[Florence Daviet]

Yes, it is.

I think there are a lot of really innovative ways to look at the non-timber values of our forests, and certainly carbon credits is one of them.

Another I think that's going on in the States is that insurance companies are looking to work with landowners to keep trees and to reforest for fire-smart interventions. I think the discussions we're having right now in Canada around natural infrastructure and how trees can help us with flooding and water quality and other issues that municipalities then end up paying for and that the communities are facing is another place where we're starting to expand our thinking around non-timber values and how those pieces could start to help build strategies that might allow us to manage our forests differently.

I think that all these things take some creative thinking, and also recognizing that we have some very different ecosystems across Canada, as you mentioned. In B.C., we have trees that can get quite old and that are storing huge amounts of carbon, and in other places, that's not so much the case. Trying to figure out how we use the best strategies in those places is very helpful.

I think the other one is linked to indigenous rights and indigenous interests. They are sometimes looking at having more of a tourism approach to having economic value in these places, or maybe other non-timber product approaches that might allow them to have economic value. I know another speaker mentioned a couple of other ideas. It does take some creative thinking and moving ourselves out of our typical boxes, and then helping to build those standards and markets.

You mentioned carbon credits. A lot of that just requires building some of the needed infrastructure so that people feel confident that the emission reductions that are being generated and used are credible.

I hope that helps.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Thank you very much.

I'm going to move to Dr. Lewis.

You mentioned towards the end of your presentation about the different ways that we harvest forests, such as partial cuts versus clear-cuts.

Can you take a couple of minutes to expand on that? If we're talking about harvesting mature forests or even if we're talking about salvaging forests after a pine beetle infestation, for instance, what are the advantages of not using the clear-cut model?

[Dr. Kathy Lewis]

The main advantage that I think is of interest to this committee is that when we take the economic value or cost of different harvesting approaches—clear-cut harvesting and partial cutting—and combine that with the costs of the different greenhouse gas emissions that will result depending on which way you do things, it becomes apparent that at least in some of the forests that we've been studying, when you combine the carbon part with the economic part of the value of the timber, partial cutting is a better deal.

Traditionally—at least in B.C., and I think in many other provinces—we have been focusing on clear-cut harvesting because it's the most economical, and in some cases it's been safer, although we've been able to address some of those safety issues as well. This research indicates that when you look at the carbon cost of clear-cut harvesting, it becomes very expensive. Partial-cut harvesting provides us with one of the tools that we can use to both get economic value from the forest in our traditional way and also somewhat reduce the carbon emissions that result and promote the ability of the forest to capture carbon.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

How much time do I have?

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Thank you, Mr. Cannings. You're right on time.

[Richard Cannings, NDP, South Okanagan—West Kootenay, BC]

Okay, thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

I appreciate it immensely.

We're now going to the second round for five minutes each, starting with Ms. Harder.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you.

My question is for Carbone boréal to start with.

You said that two billion trees cannot be planted overnight, and then you talked about the importance of considering species, considering the place where these trees are planted and considering when and how they're planted.

What you're putting out there is the idea that there needs to be a method, there needs to be a plan, and that this isn't going to just happen magically, which is interesting to me, because we had an official from the department at our committee just a little while ago, and she said there is currently no plan, that there is currently no budget and that no trees have been planted to this day.

I find your comment helpful.

One of the things that I didn't hear you talk about is the impact this has on nurseries. Obviously these trees have to come from somewhere, and most often they come from a nursery that would plant seedlings and then let them grow for a time, and those trees would then be planted in their natural habitat, wherever that might be.

Can you comment on the pressure that this is going to apply to nurseries and the impact it's going to have on the nurseries, but also the impact it is going to have on other companies that need to access trees in order to fulfill their legal obligations to plant after taking a tree down?

[Claude Villeneuve]

Thank you for your question.

The answer is in three parts. First, we're already producing and planting a lot of trees. If we have a plan based on a 10-year horizon, let's say, and we send out orders to nurseries, there's a way to adapt the orders to meet needs like that across Canada. It's not a huge challenge, because nurseries start with seeds, and we've got seeds. We need only go and gather them. However, we don't have seeds for all species.

What Carbone boréal does is test assumptions. For example, in science, we wonder if planting trees, which changes the colour of the land, won't have a counterproductive effect in some northern areas. If I were to plant trees in the Northwest Territories, the change in colour during the winter period could diminish the positive effects of carbon sequestration. This needs to be tested.

This year, in areas very far to the north, 200,000 larch trees were planted because they lose their needles in winter. With the help of satellites, we can see if a change occurs and that will provide answers about the growth of the trees. At the moment, the science is still in the development stages. That's why—

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you.

[Claude Villeneuve]

That's why the program must include investments in science.

[Rachael Thomas, Conservative, Lethbridge, AB]

Thank you. I am going to interrupt there in the interest of time. I'm going to switch over to Sustainable Forestry Initiative.

I believe you discussed indigenous young people and the fact that the forest sector offers so much in the way of employment opportunities. You talked about the two billion trees and the fact that there is an opportunity there.

My understanding is that in order to make this a reality, hiring needs to take place fairly quickly. Training needs to be done and these individuals need to be mobilized and nurtured to go in this direction.

With regard to indigenous young people, perhaps you can discuss with us briefly the tremendous benefit the forest sector offers to indigenous folks, in particular those who are young and looking to come into the market.

[Kathy Abusow]

Absolutely.

Many indigenous communities—not, all of course—are in rural communities. Not all, but most of the forest sector is in rural communities as well.

First of all, there's just this geographic alignment. The forest sector depends on trees, forests and the land. Indigenous communities have traditional ties to forests as a way of life. There is this sort of natural geographic connection as well as this love of forests, nature and dependence on forests. It puts forward indigenous people's ability to engage in the forest sector and to develop forest resources within their communities as part of the solution.

In COVID times, it's quite interesting. We had to shift our model. Earlier, we would work with camps and youth organizations and bring indigenous youth together for six-week experiences to learn basic skills. These are often at-risk youth. They would learn basic skills and get a driver's licence. They'd learn how a tree nursery works, how to grow seedlings and things like WHMIS and health and safety. We would get them some certifications and then show them the career pathway, like what tech school they could go to, such as Confederation College, Sault College or BCIT.

Then we would show them role models. We did this indigenous guide of career voices. We connected with different indigenous leaders in the forest sector in all sorts of different jobs and showed the pathway they took to get there—their traditional ways of knowing coupled with western education. Essentially, they learned that there is a pathway for them no matter what, because we were demonstrating all these different pathways.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Thank you.

Mr. Weiler, we'll go over to you for five minutes.