Natural Resources Committee on Dec. 4th, 2020

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

In terms of leadership, whether it's the wood pellet heating system or the bioenergy plant, what are some of the ways UNBC's success could be replicated by others in the higher education industry? How might others follow UNBC's leadership in this area?

[Dr. Kathy Lewis]

Some others have. I'm a little familiar with a few institutions that are adopting similar approaches. I believe the City of Prince George is on a similar pathway. We were looking at our systems for a way to support remote communities that are reliant on diesel generators for their energy. We were trying to find a way to use all these technologies to help transform them into more sustainable energy systems. That work is not making great progress, but there are opportunities for developing that even further.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Yes, we've really tried to bring that into indigenous communities, and it hasn't really taken off like we'd hoped.

Under the energy initiative's phase 3, the sustainable communities demonstration project, the UNBC website says that the SCDP will serve as a model for energy security for Canada's off-grid communities, referring to what you said, many of which are located in British Columbia.

Can you unpack this for us?

[Dr. Kathy Lewis]

It's an opportunity to use the systems that have been developed through technology and have them in rural and remote communities where they are highly dependent on diesel generators. The technical problem, from what I understand—and I'm not an expert in this area—is getting rid of the tar.

We have to do some more work before that can be taken much further. You can use the gas that's generated to heat water, but you can't use it for electricity. That is a technology glitch on which we need more work.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

That was part of the plan at UNBC to make heat using wood waste. I don't know if the panel knows this, but most of the municipal buildings in Prince George are heated with energy generated at UNBC from this wood waste. It's piped down the hill into the city. Could you expand on that a bit further?

You talked about how it hasn't gone any further due to the tar aspect. I wanted to dig into that, because to me it was a scale issue. In terms of size, we wanted to put this on the back of a truck somewhere, bring it to a community, drop it off and have it function.

Could you highlight what some of those issues are? We want to see this go further, so could you list a few of those problems?

[Dr. Kathy Lewis]

Again, I'm not the expert here. We tried developing some of these systems in some remote communities such as Kwadacha and Tsay Keh up in the north. The opportunity to heat the water is there, but there are still technical problems in for electricity generation. Where it might save us, however, is finding ways to link that up with battery technology. At this point, I probably shouldn't say anything more, because it's not my area of expertise.

[Bob Zimmer, Conservative, Prince George—Peace River—Northern Rockies, BC]

Thank you for appearing today. UNBC has punched far above its weight, as James Moore has often said. I'm more than impressed that you're continuing with this work, challenging as it is. There are a lot of miles to cover still, as you know, but thanks for appearing before our committee today.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Mr. Lefebvre, we'll go over to you for five minutes.

[Paul Lefebvre, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. I've actually had the honour of meeting many of the people on the panel today, with the exception of Ms. Lewis. It was good to hear from all of you.

I know everyone here today, and I'm very pleased to hear your testimony, which I find fascinating because you can see the potential of the forest industry. I'm a little guy from the pulp and paper industry in Kapuskasing, so I've seen firsthand the importance of this industry and its potential.

I'd like to start with Mrs. St-Aubin, who is originally from Sudbury, where I live. I'm speaking to you from there right now.

As your organization Tree Canada knows, our government has set aside $3.1 billion for its campaign to plant 2 billion trees.

Mrs. St-Aubin, your organization looks after urban trees. Can you tell me—in one minute, please—how you're going to contribute to reaching the goal of 2 billion trees?

[Danielle St-Aubin]

Thank you for your question.

We look after trees, not only in urban areas, but also in rural areas. We grow seedlings and plant hundreds of thousands of trees per year in those areas. So we make a contribution in terms of mass, in terms of the number of trees.

[Paul Lefebvre, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

How many trees do you plant per year?

[Danielle St-Aubin]

We plant over 350,000 trees per year and we plan to increase our production. Urban trees are more mature, but they are not necessarily huge. They are mostly seedlings or potted trees that can capture CO₂ as soon as they're planted and as they continue to grow.

[Paul Lefebvre, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

Thank you very much, Mrs. St-Aubin.

I will now turn to you, Mr. Villeneuve. About a month ago, as part of our study, we had a representative from the Forest Products Association of Canada appear before us. President and CEO Derek Nighbor told us that the association and its members had the capacity to plant about 1,000 trees per minute and that they planted an average of 500 million trees per year.

Then my colleague Mr. Zimmer did the math, and it seems to me he suggested that it would take 34 years to reach the federal government's goal of planting 2 billion trees. So I would like your expert opinion on how long it would take to plant 2 billion trees. Would it be possible to do it in 10 years?

[Claude Villeneuve]

It should be possible to get there in 10 years. I will use the example of vaccination against COVID-19. If it is to succeed, it will require planning, people who can think strategically, funding bodies to prepare plans and, above all, a responsive environment. That last element is fundamental, because wherever humans are present, we might find competing land use agendas.

The trees we're going to plant will be the main resource for carbon capture for 150 years, which is the minimum we should aim for. If we want them to help fight climate change, we must be able to maintain those resources. That means protecting the land where they are planted from any other activity.

Carbone boréal's experimental forests are protected under the Forestry Act. No human activity other than research can take place there, and that form of protection is effective.

So you have to think about the land, production strategies and, above all, a long-term vision with indicators that allow for reliable reporting. If you remember what I said about the aluminum industry and the 2 billion trees, every year, those 2 billion trees must capture the 10 million tonnes of emissions that industry generates.

[Paul Lefebvre, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

Mr. Chair, how much time do I have?

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

You have 30 seconds.

[Paul Lefebvre, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

All right.

So I will turn to you now, Mr. Bernier

Going back to the three recommendations you presented to us, can you tell us more about the experience that you had in the United States with the labelling of biosourced products?

[Roger Bernier]

That biosourced product was made by a Canadian company in Sarnia. We had it certified as BioPreferred. The certification was very simple, relatively easy, and opened up markets in the United States for us.

[Paul Lefebvre, Liberal, Sudbury, ON]

Thank you.

[Roger Bernier]

So the same thing could be done in Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, James Maloney]

Thank you, Mr. Bernier, and thank you, Mr. Lefebvre.

Mr. Patzer, we'll go over to you for five minutes.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Thank you very much.

I'll start with Ms. Lewis. Then perhaps Ms. Abusow can comment as well.

During this study, we've been hearing about the effects of carbon sequestration related to controlling emissions. The Canadian Forest Service tells us that a third of Canada's forest land, approximately 291 million acres, is unmanaged. It's currently not being estimated for emissions or removal of carbon. Is this something we should be tracking?

[Dr. Kathy Lewis]

Oh, wow. That's a big question. The more information we have with regard to carbon emissions and forest management, the better. Even though that large area is not being managed, it actually is. If we're doing things like fire suppression, we are affecting how those forest ecosystems are functioning. We need to understand the influence of those activities on their total carbon emissions.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Thank you.

Ms. Abusow, do you have anything you want to add to that?

[Kathy Abusow]

Yes. Actually, I think it's important to understand that about half of our forest stock isn't used in active forest management to produce forest products. Not everyone understands that. I think it's an important fact, and unique about Canada.

You heard the first speaker talk about protection strategies for 30% of our forests by 2030. What you're doing is taking even more of that area out of potentially sustainable forest management to sustain communities—all communities—and indigenous communities. This is what we're focused on: How do you manage those forests for carbon, for multiple values, but have other effective conservation measures that address protected areas and allow sustainably managed forests to be included in a protected area strategy? It means making them available for harvesting and also acknowledging, when you get conservation outcomes on those forests that are akin to strictly protected areas, that those forests that are sustainably managed should be able to count as well.

This is something we're working on with ECCC. I think this is all important, because it is all related to species recovery, carbon strategies and sustainable communities. We have to ask ourselves why we want 30% by 2030. We say it's for climate, it's for species, it's for conservation outcomes, but you can have that and also have sustainably managed forests, a circular economy, products that are produced from them and those other benefits through proper management, through new strategies and innovation.

Yes, our whole forest base needs to count, but we seem to forget that we're already not counting 50% in a lot of what we're doing. I just want to remind this committee of that larger forest base that we work on. It's an important one to consider overall, with all of these strategies, not just that which is under active forest management.