Evidence of meeting #101 for Natural Resources in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was grid.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5:10 p.m.
President, Geothermal Canada
I don't have them specifically from Canada, because we have no operating electrical plants, but we based—
5:10 p.m.
President, Geothermal Canada
Yes. The OpEx, in terms of.... I don't know how to phrase it. It's 10% of your total costs per year.
5:10 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal George Chahal
Thank you.
Now we are in our final round.
Colleagues, I propose we do five minutes, five minutes, two and a half minutes, two and a half minutes, and then end after that. That should take us pretty close to the end of the meeting.
Mr. Patzer, you have five minutes.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Jeremy Patzer Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Ms. Wong, if you're going to be tabling a document to this committee about the cost per kilowatt-hour for wind, solar and natural gas, I'm wondering if you would be able to also include in that a breakdown of what the cost would be if there wasn't a federal government-imposed carbon tax on natural gas, just so we can get a good snapshot of all things being equal.
With that, Mr. Chair, I'm going to give notice of a motion quickly with part of my time here:
Given that,
The Liberal government released its internal economic data on the carbon tax, revealing it costs Canadians $30.5 billion and over $1800 for every household in Canada,
This is in addition to the increased costs the carbon tax puts on gas, groceries and home heating, and
The Liberal government tried to cover up this information from Canadians,
When the Parliamentary Budget Officer revealed that the Liberal government had this data, they placed him under a gag order, and attempted to disparage his reputation;
The committee report to the House that the environment minister must resign immediately
I'm just giving notice of that motion. I'm not asking to move it or debate it. I'm just putting that out there. Because we are talking about costs of energy here, I do think that it ties in quite nicely with some of the points that we've heard here today.
For Capital Power, I'm wondering if you can you talk a little bit more about some of the obstacles or maybe disincentives that exist for you guys in trying to get your carbon capture project up and going.
5:10 p.m.
Senior Vice-President, Strategy, Planning and Sustainability, Capital Power
Sure.
I think one of the challenges with this newer technology is the scale of investment required and the level of uncertainty that exists about the longer-term trajectory of industrial carbon pricing, and there is also increased risk related to technology, given where they're at in their cycle of development. If it's first of its kind or one of the more immature technologies, it factors into our consideration when we're looking at whether there is too much risk to take on in order to proceed with the investment.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Jeremy Patzer Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK
I'm going to go to Greengate Power here.
Mr. Balaban, have you done any calculations on how many wind turbines would have to be built and operational from today to 2035 in order to be net zero by 2035?
5:10 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Greengate Power Corporation
I don't have that specific calculation, but I would acknowledge that for a province like Alberta, getting to net zero by 2035 is uniquely challenging.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Jeremy Patzer Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK
Why is that? Is it because they would have to replace more coal and natural gas with wind, or what?
5:10 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Greengate Power Corporation
I think this is part of the polarizing discussion that I'm referring to.
We can see significantly more renewables on the grid as time goes on, but net zero as an absolute goal is very challenging. In the case of Alberta, we don't have hydro resources of the kind that many other provinces have. We rely a lot on thermal generation. It used to be coal; now it's natural gas and a lot more renewables, but to take that thermal generation out of the mix and replace it entirely with renewables is not technically feasible at this time.
5:10 p.m.
Conservative
Jeremy Patzer Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK
Okay, so you would probably be willing to say that a 2035 target, that mandate, is completely unrealistic.
5:15 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Greengate Power Corporation
It's very challenging for Alberta, and I think it certainly requires some acknowledgement of the specific conditions and easing of some of the particular parts of it to apply to Alberta.
5:15 p.m.
Conservative
Jeremy Patzer Conservative Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK
Yes, and I think across the entire country as well, because next door in Saskatchewan, we're kind of in that same boat; it's the same situation there.
In regard to the interties, though, this past winter, for example, Saskatchewan had to come to the rescue of Alberta in January. Some of the new proposed CERs are creating some hesitancy about whether or not provinces would be able to share power back and forth smoothly.
Do you have that same concern?
5:15 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Greengate Power Corporation
I think we should look at this as a national problem and remove any barriers that might exist between the provinces to try to solve this together.
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
Julie Dabrusin Liberal Toronto—Danforth, ON
Thank you.
I have a few questions, actually. It's kind of an interesting place to be as the final person, because I get to pick up on threads I've been hearing in testimony until now.
Maybe I'll start with Greengate, but I was actually hoping to go around to everyone.
You talked about the Infrastructure Bank, SREPs and ITCs being very useful and supportive to building out renewables as part of our energy mix. Can you tell me if you have seen any of these programs support projects that you're working on or that you have been adjacent to in your work?
5:15 p.m.
Chief Executive Officer, Greengate Power Corporation
A project we developed called Jurassic solar, which we no longer own, signed a contribution agreement for SREP funding.
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
Julie Dabrusin Liberal Toronto—Danforth, ON
Great.
I'll go to the others, starting with Capital Power.
5:15 p.m.
Senior Vice-President, Strategy, Planning and Sustainability, Capital Power
Yes, on these programs, we have been in conversations to look for ways to advance some of our projects.
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
Julie Dabrusin Liberal Toronto—Danforth, ON
Would that be through the Infrastructure Bank or SREPs, or is there another federal program that has been supportive?
5:15 p.m.
Senior Vice-President, Strategy, Planning and Sustainability, Capital Power
The programs that you mentioned are the ones that, through SIF and CIB, are related to conversations we have had on our Genesee project.
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
5:15 p.m.
President, Geothermal Canada
For us, it's the predecessor to the SREPs, the emerging renewable power program.
I also wanted to add that internationally, in other countries, there is no need to subsidize geothermal energy. It is only in Canada.
5:15 p.m.
Liberal
Julie Dabrusin Liberal Toronto—Danforth, ON
I was just trying to figure out about the federal programs, because it had come up through some of the other witnesses, so that was basically where I was going. Maybe you—
