Natural Resources Committee on Oct. 21st, 2024

[An hon. member]

Without a vote.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I'd like to get to a vote so that we can move on.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Thank you for your point of order.

I have Mrs. Shanahan on a point of order. She's been waiting patiently.

Thank you for not interrupting, Mrs. Shanahan. Go ahead on your point of order.

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

Thank you very much, Chair.

On that point of order, I've sat on many committees as well, including committees chaired by opposition chairs. I would just point out that schedules, even when they are made, are subject to change. Subcommittees are formed to discuss the details of the timing.

I think what we have here is the assurance that the work of this committee will not be interrupted by going forward with this motion, and I for one would like to go to a vote.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Thank you for that, Ms. Shanahan.

We will go back to Mrs. Stubbs, who had the floor.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

What I was saying when I had the floor was that we need to see the dates and the work plan mapped out until Christmas so that members can make an informed vote on this motion, which would move us into different work.

Chair, I might suggest that you have an opportunity, and probably support, to suspend the meeting but obviously not have a vote on this motion until you can report back that schedule, by day and by deadlines, mapped out until Christmas. Then we as a committee can all decide with the information we need to do that. We need to demonstrate to Canadians that we can actually finish work and get it out the door. Otherwise, that's why all Canadians are looking at us and saying that everything is broken. They're right, but it wasn't us who broke it.

In case anybody in here has ever run a business or an organization of any kind, it is pretty obvious that we need to have these questions answered by dates, by day and by deadlines in order for us as committee members to make a decision on this very important issue and this very important work that I've already supported and we've already supported in principle and that in fact I myself offered a solution to in 2020, as Conservatives did then. We can't make a decision or an informed vote on this motion until that request is honoured.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

Let's be clear: Nowhere in Ms. Dabrusin's motion does it mention the dates when these meetings should take place. In the past, I have voted on a lot of motions that did not specify when meetings would be held to conduct the proposed studies.

In my opinion, it is up to the Subcommittee on Agenda and Procedure to set the priorities for committee business. I don't think it's simply up to you to decide when the study Ms. Dabrusin is proposing will take place. It would therefore be wiser for committee members to vote immediately on the motion to indicate whether they wish to undertake that kind of work. The subcommittee could then meet to set priorities for the work in a way that suits all parties. I think we can vote right away and plan a subcommittee meeting to set an agenda that will satisfy everyone.

Members can't block a vote on the pretext that they don't know when the proposed study will take place. It will be up to us to decide, if necessary, in subcommittee.

Let's stop this stalling or delay tactic and simply vote on it. If my Conservative colleagues don't agree, all they have to do is vote against the motion. That's all there is to it.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

We already agreed with it and accepted it.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Thank you for the point of order.

You do have the floor, Mrs. Stubbs, unless you've ceded the floor to Mr. Patzer. He is next on the speaking list.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I would just emphasize again that, for our committee to function and for us to be able to do the jobs that Canadians elected us to do, and for our leaders and our parties who have appointed us to these particular roles on this committee, we must be able to demonstrate that we can finish our work and give deliverables and outcomes to Canadians. We have backed-up studies and backed-up reports. The current situation of this committee is as has been described by common-sense Conservatives here.

I completely appreciate what my colleague, Mr. Simard, is saying, except that we haven't actually been able to complete and deliver on the series of work that we've been implementing here.

I would also just say, for the purposes of working together co-operatively—and, I'm assuming, with good faith—on behalf of the people who elected us here, that it just seems obvious to me that they would see that this is clearly about proper management of work and deliverables.

Also, however, for our work here, of course, Mr. Simard, the problem is that what you're suggesting is that perhaps Conservatives then could move motions at every single meeting about all the studies that we want to have on behalf of Canadians. I am suggesting that we all actually work together to map out this schedule properly, so that we're all clear, aligned and mapped out for our days and our work until Christmas so that we can actually get things done around here. Otherwise, you are then inviting every political party to just move motions every single day on the topics that are important to the people they represent in their regions. I don't think that would be a very effective way to operate in this committee, and I don't think it's what Canadians want or expect out of their elected representatives.

That would be my input.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

I am going to a point of order from Mr. Angus, and then I am going to go to Mr. Patzer after that.

Mr. Patzer, just hold for one second.

Go ahead, Mr. Angus.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I was keen on going past one o'clock so that we could get to a vote, but if we are going to be obstructing and are going to keep going back to a point that I think has been settled, I would suggest that we suspend. Time is of great value for MPs to get stuff done, and we're not getting anything done here.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Thank you, MP Angus.

You would note in my previous comment that I suggested to the chair that a solution would be that he could suspend without a vote.

Thank you for your support.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Thank you for your point of order, Mr. Angus.

We are engaged in debate, and I appreciate your providing that on a point of order.

The floor is Mr. Patzer's, and he can move a motion, as members are allowed to do at any point in time when they do have the floor. However, I will confer, as well, with the clerk in the meantime because Mr. Patzer does have the floor.

Go ahead, Mr. Patzer. The floor is yours.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Are you suggesting, Mr. Chair, that you want me to move a motion to suspend the meeting?

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

No, I am not suggesting anything.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I'm sorry. Could you just clarify that? You were responding to me, but then you mentioned Mr. Patzer. Are you saying that, as Mr. Patzer has the floor, he can vote to adjourn?

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Mr. Patzer does have the floor and Mrs. Stubbs has completed her debate. It goes to Mr. Patzer next.

You were bringing up a point of order, and you cannot move a motion on a point of order.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I was just clarifying that, with Mr. Patzer having the floor, he could vote to adjourn the debate and we could bring it back at the next meeting.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Clerk, on the advice you're giving right now, I'd really appreciate it if you gave it to all members, because you are defining and differentiating for us, very importantly, the difference between a motion to adjourn debate and a motion to adjourn the meeting.

Thank you for all your service.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

It looks like we want to continue on with this. We do have a schedule in place, so we can go to a vote, but if not, we can move to suspend. We can continue on this debate. Unfortunately, that could impact our schedule, which members are so.... The preference would be that, if this is supported by all members, we go to a vote.

If not, we can look at, as Mr. Simard suggested earlier.... Mr. Simard suggested earlier that we could potentially look at having a subcommittee get together to discuss prioritizing plans as well. That's something we could consider.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

To the point though, Mr. Chair, about needing a schedule, if you would just enlighten the committee members with a fulsome schedule until Christmas, even to the break week in November.... We're not even asking for very much. That's only a couple of weeks.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

That's totally reasonable.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

I fully agree with my colleague that Christmas is very reasonable: If you can't do that, then I move that we suspend the meeting.