Natural Resources Committee on Oct. 21st, 2024

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

There you go. It might be simpler for you guys to get rid of your leader if you just call the carbon tax election and let Canadians do it for you instead. Save the headache. Save the time.

That's the end of my remarks. I'll let Mr. Dreeshen go from there.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

All right, Mr. Dreeshen. It's over to you.

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer—Mountain View, AB]

Thank you very much.

I agree with my colleague's assessment of one solution, but to go back to what Mr. Simard indicated as he spoke about federal regulations and the significance of it, I think that, as we study this, we will find out that it is the federal government's issue that has caused the problem, as they perhaps are unaware or simply choose not to look at it. It has a lot to do with indigenous participation, and how that works is, of course, a federal jurisdiction.

When we are dealing with first nations engagement, this is what the Alberta government was pushing back on, the fact that the federal government.... It took time for the first nations to be able to get up to speed in order to deal with the projects that were upcoming. They held joint press conferences where chief after chief pleaded with the federal government to do its duty and to help with the cleanup of orphan wells on reserves. Alberta first nations have now gotten to the stage where they could deal with the capacity to do that work, but this government does not let them and will not let them. Ultimately, it was accomplished that they could not get their work done by the federal government demanding its money back.

In August, the provincial government did that, but no one seemed to be paying attention to the fact that this money was destined to help with first nations. It also seems that no one was paying attention to that as a federal responsibility. It is easy, then, to turn this all around with the preamble that is there by saying, “Do you know what? We've always gained lots of points when we do Alberta-bashing.” This is the only reason why this has been put there.

The one part that I did hear from perhaps both of my colleagues to my left and to the right is that the preamble could be dumped and then we'd talk about how we can make sure that we ensure for the whole country that they have the economic and the environmental standards that Alberta is so proud of and that people around the world are so proud of.

I hearken back to discussions on Fort McMurray. I challenge anyone to go up and take a look at what is happening in the pits, to turn around 180 degrees and find the lush forests that are, by design, by the Alberta government. They are forced to do it—and they do it with pride. However, there's no pride that comes from this federal government on the environmental aspects, the environmental plans that all Canadians have. It's just Alberta-bashing, and that will end.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Thank you, Mr. Dreeshen.

I'm going to call the vote on the amendment by a show of hands.

(Amendment agreed to [See Minutes of Proceedings])

Everybody is in favour of the amendment. The amendment passes unanimously. Now we'll go back to the main motion.

Do you want to vote on the main motion if everybody here is in agreement?

Okay. We do have—

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Chair, I'm sorry. We have to have more of a debate on the main motion, because you haven't yet answered my question on the studies.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

We do have a number of speakers.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

It's 1 p.m. and we obviously can't continue this now.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Okay. We have a speaking order still established. I know that a number of members—

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Chair, again, the summary of the work and where we are at—

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Mrs. Stubbs, if you give me—

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

—must be done in order for members—

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

We are—

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

—to be able to make a decision on this vote. It's after 1 p.m., and you don't have consent to proceed.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Mrs. Stubbs, I'm chairing the meeting. If you give me an opportunity, I'll explain what I'm going to propose here. I'll continue.

We do have a number of people in the speaking order. There have been some questions raised by members on the plan moving forward, and we are in debate on this motion, but I will highlight to you, after discussing with the clerk, that we do have a study for Wednesday. It means continuing our study for Wednesday, so that will happen. We're hoping to have some more information on the following meetings regarding appearances by folks we've invited.

We do have work on the work plan. As I've heard from all members as well, you would like to finish the study and get it complete prior to moving on to any other study, so we will try to make sure that the TMX study is complete and then have a plan moving forward after that.

Colleagues, if there is an interest in continuing and you give me a moment to confer with the clerk, I can advise you accordingly on resources.

We are waiting for an update on resources. It might take a minute or two. We can continue for a few more minutes until we get that confirmation. I'll leave it up to colleagues to decide.

I'm going to go to the next person on the speaking—

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Chair, my understanding is that you need unanimous consent to proceed with the meeting past 1 p.m., and you don't have it.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

No, we actually do not.

I'm going to go to the speaking order.

Mr. Angus, you are next on the speaking order on the main motion, and then it's Mrs. Stubbs after that. I will go to you, and you can just continue.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you.

I'm ready to vote. I think the issue of a preamble.... People can debate the preamble all they want. That can be the focus for what people debate during the hearings.

I appreciate knowing that this isn't going to interrupt the finishing off of our present study and that we have the other study that we have to work on, but this would allow us to start bringing in new witnesses. I'm ready to vote.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Thank you, Mr. Angus.

I'm going to Mrs. Stubbs.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

Chair, as I said before, it's still important for you to outline specifically the timing and the dates for the work in which you'd see our current studies completed, as well as dissenting reports if parties around the table would deem to do those. We need to hear from you very clearly what the days are, what the timelines are, what the deadlines are and how that impacts the meetings out until Christmas, and then we'll all be able to make an informed decision on this one.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

As mentioned, we are in debate, and that's something I've already clarified with the clerk, what our following meetings are—

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

My intervention in the debate is that I want to hear that from you and the clerk now.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

I've just stated that previously, Mrs. Stubbs. We are in debate.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

With dates, though, mapped out for the meetings until Christmas....

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

I have a point of order, Chair.

[Shannon Stubbs, Conservative, Lakeland, AB]

That's what I'm asking.