Natural Resources Committee on Nov. 18th, 2024

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

I think we're all ready to vote on the amendment, if I understand my colleagues correctly.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Okay.

We are on the amendment. Everyone has a copy. It's been well discussed. We will proceed to a vote.

(Amendment negatived: nays 6; yeas 5)

With the amendment defeated, I now have....

Sorry. I'll put you on the list, Mr. Simard. I have a speaking list on the main motion still established, because we had jumped to the amendment. I can add you to that, if you'd like.

You do. Okay. I'll add you to it.

Mr. Jowhari, I had you next on the main speaking list. Do you still wish to speak on the main motion?

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

I actually had hoped that we would come to a consensus, because it gave everyone the opportunity that they were looking for. To me, that wordsmithing is the same as the challenge that we were going through when we had the preamble for the abandoned well motion, but here we are.

If I have an opportunity to move another amendment, the amendment would add the following after “...to the House”:

and have the Government of Canada provide a response to this report pursuant to Standing Order 109

and the way it would read is as follows:

That, given the PBO's statements in the Trans Mountain pipeline system report 2024 released on November 8, 2024, the committee expresses concern about the financial uncertainty regarding the government's ability to sell the Trans Mountain pipeline system—

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Mr. Jowhari, we have a point of order, so as you read, I'm going to go to Mr. Simard.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

I'm sure you will understand that, given the substance of the amendment my colleague seems to be proposing, it is difficult for a francophone to navigate this based on the translation.

Mr. Chair, I just want to point out how ironic it is for my Liberal friends to condemn filibustering in the House and resist shedding light on the purchase of a pipeline that is causing significant losses for the government, which is a matter of public interest in the House.

The foundational principle in democracy is that the debate and decision-making process happens in full view of everyone. I will never understand a political party that tries to throttle the amount of information given to the public. The purpose of the motion is solely and simply to have a debate in the House on an issue that was raised by the Parliamentary Budget Officer.

I can understand my Liberal colleagues wanting to improve and amend the motion I tabled. However, my sense is that people are now trying to run out the clock and adjourn this debate. That's not what I want.

If my colleagues' goal is to introduce an amendment that would be incomprehensible to me so as to run out the clock, I find that objectionable. My understanding of what Mr. Jowhari said just now is that he is proposing an amendment that I would be unable to accept or reject because I don't have a good grasp of it via translation.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

I was listening intently and trying to catch everything you said, Monsieur Simard, on what was not a point of order but a point of clarification, to get an idea of what is happening here.

Mr. Jowhari, I am going to go back to you because you were in the process—

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Go ahead, Mr. Angus, on a point of order.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I was really hoping we could get some things cleared up so that we could move on, but it doesn't look like we will.

Are we suspending at 6:30 p.m.?

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Well, we have five minutes. We might—

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Okay, I just want to know what our timeline is.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

In the next five minutes, if we can get something done, it's up to colleagues how we'd like to proceed after that.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I'm perfectly willing. I just want to know at 6:30 p.m., and then we can pick it up on Monday.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

All right. I'm going to go back to Mr. Jowhari.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Thank you.

If Mr. Simard will allow me, I will read the whole amended motion a bit more slowly this time. I will highlight the section I'm talking about afterwards. While it's being prepared to send out in both official languages, I will go back and address MP Simard's concern.

The motion reads as follows in English:

That, given the PBO's statements in the Trans Mountain pipeline system report 2024 released on November 8, 2024, the committee expresses concern about the financial uncertainty regarding the government's ability to sell the Trans Mountain pipeline system at a price that avoids a net loss to taxpayers and asks the chairman to report back to the House

So far, everything is as you have it in your motion.

This is the addition: “and have the Government of Canada provide a response to this report pursuant to Standing Order 109 as soon as possible.”

With this amendment, the whole purpose of what we are trying to do is to find agreement so that we can give you the platform to have that conversation in the House of Commons. As I committed to you, I will be there. I'm sure all of our colleagues would be there.

This is the genesis, and I hope we'll have your support on that.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

We have an amendment on the floor.

I'm going to you next, Mr. Simard, on the amendment.

Mr. Jowhari, could you please provide a copy of that to the clerk? He will have to get translations done.

Mr. Simard, in the meantime, I'm going to hear what you have to say, because you might have a great suggestion, as you normally do.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

If the amendment merely adds to the text of the motion that the government must respond to the committee's report as soon as possible, I fully agree. We could do that very quickly.

I think my Conservative colleagues agreed with the motion. If the proposal is simply to add that the government must respond quickly, I would be more than happy to vote in favour of the amendment. We can adopt the motion by the end of this meeting, which will allow us to move on to something else next Monday.

I therefore encourage my colleagues to vote quickly on the amendment and the motion so we can continue to conduct our business properly.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Thank you, Mr. Simard.

We have a point of order.

Go ahead on a point of order, Mr. Dreeshen.

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer—Mountain View, AB]

I'm interested in whether the clerk could tell us what S.O. 109 is. That was part of the discussion. I think it is important that everyone understand what the ramifications are of that.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Thank you, Mr. Dreeshen. Regarding your point of order on S.O. 109, I'll have the clerk get clarification on that in the meantime.

Mr. Jowhari, in the interim, you have the floor. I want to make sure you sent your amendment over so all members of the committee have it, and so the clerk, most importantly, can get it reviewed, in order to make sure there are no irregularities. Then he can get it translated for colleagues.

[Majid Jowhari, Liberal, Richmond Hill, ON]

Mr. Chair, I believe the amendment in both official languages is being sent to the clerk imminently. Given that....

I'm sorry. I'll leave that to you.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Thank you.

I'm going to get the clerk to respond to Mr. Dreeshen, once he's able to.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

There is a point of order from Mr. Angus.