Natural Resources Committee on Nov. 18th, 2024

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Mr. Falk, you raised your hand. I'm sorry. Before I go to you, Mr. Falk, Ms. Dabrusin still has the floor.

Go ahead, Ms. Dabrusin.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

I want to explain why I think that this is particularly important in this moment.

As we all know, the time to pass supp Bs through the House will be coming up. We have an issue with how things have been going in the House of Commons with this ongoing privilege motion that's been brought forward by the Conservatives and has been intentionally holding down the time we have in the House of Commons. It's preventing us from getting to these important things.

The reason I mention it is that we need to actually go on with the process right now to be able to pass our supplementary estimates (B). That's how we will be able to flow the funding that we need for so many of the programs that are so important to our communities and to the country, especially when we're talking about issues of natural resources. Having the minister come here is part of that process that we need to see happen.

Among the things that we're not going to be able to fund if we don't have these supplementary estimates (B) passed, one is the extra funding that goes to critical minerals infrastructure, which is something that's important to people right around this table. We need to be able to have the minister come and speak to that, about why it's so important that we have more funding go towards critical minerals and about what would happen if the Conservatives succeed in blocking us in the House of Commons and preventing us from moving forward with the important work that we have in front of us.

Critical minerals is one important piece of that. We know that when we're talking about a lot of the investments that have been happening in my home province of Ontario, such as in batteries and in auto manufacturing, a lot of the businesses are looking to relocate what they're doing to my home province and looking to create really good-paying jobs in my home province because they know we have critical minerals that are accessible. That's one of Canada's strengths, going forward, in the world economy as we know it.

I think it would be really important for us to be able to have the Minister of Energy and Natural Resources come and speak to that piece of the policy, and that's why we need to see it move forward. It would give us a better sense of what the impact would be if the Conservatives actually do manage to continue to hold the House of Commons hostage and prevent us from being able to move forward with the work we're doing.

Another really important piece, particularly when we talk about the last study we were working on—clean electricity—is that Supplementary Estimates (B) committee documents also have funding that goes to the SREP. That is one of the really important funding sources for a lot of the work happening on cleaner electricity. I see it landing in communities right across the country. It's helping them to support clean electricity work. We've just finished doing an entire study that shows us why it's so important and what we need to do. We're also working towards clean electricity regulations. We've seen a draft of those already.

How do we get there? We need to make sure, if we want to have a clean electrical grid, that we are doing the important work to get there. Seeing the funding for the SREP slowed down is a problem on that. We can't have that happen. We know it's what people in different communities that we represent will want to see us do. They want to see this funding come through. It helps us to move forward. It's a really popular program, and a challenge we're facing right now is with the holdup. I think it is really important that we have the minister come and speak to it.

Another piece that's going to be important and that has Supplementary Estimates (B) funding noted in committee documents is the sustainable jobs secretariat. We spent a lot of time around this table talking about sustainable jobs. There were some very long nights as we moved forward on that. As a person who's plant-based, I always say that “meat on the bones” is a really strange term for me to be using, but there you go. We need to—

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

“Plant on the bones” works.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

“Plant on the bones”, yes.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

How about leaf on the bones?

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

I love that I'm getting suggestions on it. We can say it's a “Beyond Meat” addition to the bones. Either way, that's not going over well either.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

It's hard to get consensus on that one.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Well, you get the idea.

We've spent many very long nights in this place working on the Canadian Sustainable Jobs Act. I think it was something that was very important for us to do. Now we need to have the funding go through for the Sustainable Jobs Secretariat. That's going to require the supplementary estimates (B) to go through.

Again, we're in a moment where the Conservatives have been holding up all work in the House of Commons. This means that we haven't passed supplementary estimates (B) yet. Having the minister come here will help us better understand what could happen if they don't come through, and what the impacts will be on all of our communities and on our work on these issues—sustainable jobs, a clean electrical grid, our critical minerals infrastructure and things like that. It's also a chance for us to try to move the process forward.

That's what I think is so important in this moment. We have one month left here together. With one month left together, we can get a whole lot done. We should be getting a whole lot done. Unfortunately, we haven't been at a point to move things forward. I'm really hoping that after hearing the minister, even the Conservatives will have a chance to think a little about whether they want to change what's happening in the House of Commons and see the funding come through to all of our provinces, with all of this work that's happening. It will also support sustainable jobs and try to build the economy of the future for our country. We are all facing a very special moment right now, in terms of being able to do that.

I think those are a few important pieces for us to consider as we go forward. It's been frustrating, over the past many weeks in the House of Commons, to not get a lot of the work done that we would normally do. I know that when my community sent me here, it was not to listen to an extended privilege debate in the House of Commons day after day. They want to see us pass the legislation that we need to pass. They also want to see us make sure the programs we said we would do get the funding they need so they can move forward. There's no benefit to the extended delay we're seeing right now. It's just slowing us down.

With that piece in mind, I brought in this motion so we would at least have a chance for Minister Wilkinson to come and provide us with extra details. In light of the study we had done on clean electricity and beyond talking about the importance of making sure the funding actually flows through on SREP, I think this would be a chance for him to highlight a little more how it fits into everything else we are doing on electricity.

I think it was budget 2023 that had a pyramid that I thought was very helpful. It laid out everything we're doing on electricity. At the base, you have the regulatory side and carbon pricing. Then you have the next layer up. It has different funding sources through the CIB—the Canada Infrastructure Bank—and that kind of thing.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

I have a point of clarification.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Hold on one second.

Monsieur Simard, go ahead.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

I am very fond of my friend, Ms. Dabrusin. I like her very much.

Having said that, I need some clarification. I understand what she's saying. She's right, the House is at a standstill, and many bills are not moving forward.

I think everyone around this table will vote in favour of her motion, since everyone would like to hear from the minister, and the committee's work shouldn't be unduly paralyzed.

I encourage my friend, Ms. Dabrusin, to put her motion to a vote now so we can be more efficient and possibly, as she said in her speech, produce slightly more substantive results for everyone.

I understand what she's getting at. That is very commendable, but I encourage her to act in accordance with what she said in her speech and put her motion to a vote. Then, we can move on.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Thank you, Monsieur Simard. On your point of order, which.... There's some debate there, but I did want to give you leeway. I was hearing it through translation and I wanted to see where you were going.

I will turn the floor back to Ms. Dabrusin, who has moved a motion and is providing the rationale for the motion.

I do have a speaking order for other members who want to speak. I have been generating one. Just raise your hand and I can get you on the list for debate. Thank you.

Go ahead, Ms. Dabrusin.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

No, I—

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I have a point of order.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

We have a point of order from Mr. Angus.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

You said that you have a speakers list. Could you read out the list?

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Sure. I have Mr. Falk and then I have you, Mr. Angus. Then I have Monsieur Simard.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I thought you said you had me second.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

I have Mr. Falk and then you, Mr. Angus

I'll go back to you, Ms. Dabrusin.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

I find it interesting that a lot of people want to discuss this motion.

I agree with Mr. Simard. My motion is quite simple. I don't usually say much about this kind of motion, but I asked for more time for this one because things are a little different.

There aren't usually a lot of issues with the supplementary estimates (B), which the House typically deals with quickly in terms of the debate and the vote. Now, however, we don't know what's going to happen. The Conservatives' privilege motion is taking up an enormous amount of time, and everything is moving at a snail's pace in the House.

I want to thank Mr. Simard for his question. Things are different because of what is going on in the House of Commons. Usually, things happen fast. We know we'll be voting on the supplementary estimates (B) and that all government projects will get the funding they need. This time, things are different. That's why it's so important to get the minister here and give him an opportunity to explain why the funds are needed and what will happen if that money doesn't flow.

I see that these supplementary estimates (B) include credits for critical minerals. All members of the committee have clearly explained the importance of these critical minerals. It's important for the government, for communities and for the economy. It's also important for the technologies we need to have a clean economy. It's also important to have sustainable jobs in this sector.

I live in Ontario and represent an Ontario riding, and we hear a lot of talk about manufacturers producing electric cars and batteries. To do that, we need critical minerals.

There are also clean electricity measures. Regulations have already been proposed for that, and the supplementary estimates (B) contain funding that will help communities acquire more reliable and affordable clean electricity sources. This is very important. We just finished a study on that. That's why we really need to hear what the minister can tell us about how the funding in supplementary estimates (B) will help us build a more sustainable, reliable and clean electricity system. Those are two reasons to invite the minister.

There's another reason why it's very important for us to hear from the minister: The supplementary estimates (B) contain funding to support the creation of sustainable jobs. This committee spent many evenings working on the sustainable jobs bill. Mr. Falk is saying it wasn't that many evenings. He may be right, but we certainly spent many hours working on it.

The supplementary estimates (B) also include funding to create a sustainable jobs secretariat. I wonder how we can move forward without that. The bill was passed and enacted, but we now have to put all the elements together to keep doing this work. That's why I think it's so important.

It's a chance for me to emphasize that what we've been witnessing in the House of Commons is very frustrating. It's very frustrating to see that we can't move quickly on supplementary estimates (B). I would very much ask that all of the members around this table bring the minister here to answer all those questions and to talk to us about supplementary estimates (B).

Maybe I can also take it as a moment to encourage everyone around this table to go back and ask that we find a way to break the impasse in the House of Commons, because it's not serving our communities and it's not serving what we're trying to do.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Ms. Dabrusin, we have a point of order from Mr. Patzer.

Go ahead on the point of order.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Perhaps I can help the parliamentary secretary right here. The path forward would simply be for your own government to comply with the will of Parliament, which was reflected by all three parties of the opposition. Comply with that.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Mr. Patzer, that's not a point of order; it's a point of debate. If you'd like the floor, I'll add you to the list.

I appreciate that you're trying to help, but the help I need from colleagues is to use a point of order for a point of order and use your debate time to debate.

I appreciate that. Thank you.

Ms. Dabrusin, we'll go back to you.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

I appreciate that helpfulness, but I'm not actually here to debate the privilege debate that's in the House of Commons.