Natural Resources Committee on May 18th, 2022

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

I have a quick one here, then. I'll try to get a couple in.

You voted against the Conservative opposition day motion, Mr. Minister, to undertake measures to get Canadian natural gas to be exported to Europe to displace Russian gas. Last week it was reported that your department approached Pieridae to get the proposed Goldboro LNG terminal built in Nova Scotia. The story even quoted the CEO of Pieridae, saying, the federal government might be offering, “regulatory and financial support.”

While I applaud this new enthusiasm to get LNG projects built, I still don't understand why you voted against our opposition day motion with this outcome. Is your new position to offer regulatory and financial support to get LNG projects built, given that you have three areas that he said were hurdles that remain? They are first nations reconciliation; new engineering, procurement, construction and commissioning; and achieving needed upgrades to existing pipelines, which is what we were asking for in the first place. Can you just answer that?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Certainly, given the challenges in Europe, Europe has asked us to do what we can to expedite oil. We've announced 300,000 additional barrels of oil by the end of the year and to look at natural gas, but in the context of a liquid natural gas that would transition to hydrogen—you can convert natural gas to hydrogen—as that transition happens in Europe. We have said we would look at doing that.

There's more than one potential project that people have been working on, proponents have been working on. We're talking to all of those folks to see what the impediments would be and to see what could be done to expedite that, but it would have to be done in a manner that is very low emission domestically, and it would be a transition to hydrogen in Germany or elsewhere in the European Union.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

Thank you. I have one more quick one here.

On the night your government approved Bay du Nord, to cushion the blow to those who wanted the project scrapped, your government announced you'll be introducing even more regulations, which have yet to be fleshed out.

Now that the Alberta Court of Appeal has ruled that Bill C-69 is unconstitutional, how could you possibly move forward with further regulations, without having any certainty before the Supreme Court weighs in?

Will you commit today to not introduce any new regulations until the Supreme Court rules on whether Bill C-69 is unconstitutional?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

What the Minister of the Environment said is that we would be putting out policy guidance to try to ensure that people are clear about the hurdles and the metrics that would have to be achieved in order for projects to go ahead. That's just about creating certainty.

The Alberta Court of Appeal issued an opinion. It was not a ruling on the case. It was not declaring it unconstitutional, and we are of the view that there will be a different ruling at the Supreme Court—

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

It said it was unconstitutional.

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

It will be a different ruling at the Supreme Court, and we are appealing.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

We're out of time on that one.

Mr. Sorbara, are you ready to go for two and a half minutes?

We go over to you.

[Francesco Sorbara, Vaughan—Woodbridge, Lib.]

Thank you, Chair.

Welcome, Minister. It's great to see you today.

Minister, could you please provide some details on the CERRC program and the progress of capacity building in indigenous communities since the program was first launched?

What will the additional funding over the coming years be focused towards?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Thank you for the question. It's nice to see you on the committee.

The clean energy for rural and remote communities program is part of NRCan's green infrastructure funding. There are two streams to this program. There is a call for renewable demonstration and deployment projects and a call for capacity-building proposals. The program aims to reduce reliance on diesel in rural and remote communities, many of which are indigenous. Projects funded through this program have and will continue to decrease Canada's carbon footprint, support our climate targets, contribute to healthier communities and provide new opportunities for economic growth.

The project was launched in 2018. It is currently advancing renewable energy and capacity-building projects in 131 communities across the country, such as the Fort Severn First Nation solar project in Ontario.

[Francesco Sorbara]

Thank you, Minister.

Can I have a quick follow-up, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Go ahead.

[Francesco Sorbara]

In terms of greening and cleaning our electricity grid, which we are making great progress on, could you provide an update on the smart grid program?

How is increased funding going to drive innovation and create new opportunities? How is our government supporting workers preparing for those opportunities?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Thank you.

The smart grid program is helping to bring cleaner and renewable energy onto a smarter electricity grid by supporting projects up front, in terms of construction costs, and helping to address regulatory and market barriers. It is accelerating the development of smart grids to reduce GHG emissions and generate economic and social benefits.

The program was launched in 2018. It's currently funding 22 projects across the country, like London Hydro's West 5 smart grid project in Ontario, for example. Certainly, I think there's an enormous opportunity to use this kind of technology to help transform our energy system.

[Francesco Sorbara]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

We're down to the last 10 seconds, so I'm just going to stop it there and go right over to Mr. Simard for his two and a half minutes.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Minister, since you're prepared to spend $2.6 billion of the budget on carbon capture and $384 million of the budget on the emissions reduction fund—at a time when oil companies are raking in record profits—could it be that you think the oil and gas sector would not be prepared to reduce its omissions without your financial help?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

As I've already said a few times, it is very important for us to work with all industrial emitters in the country to help them reduce their emissions.

That's what we did with the steel industry in Ontario and the aluminum industry in Quebec.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

I'll try to make myself clearer.

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

That is also true for the oil and gas sector in Alberta and Saskatchewan.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

You'll see what I'm getting at.

Your fellow minister Mr. Guilbault said that he wanted to eliminate fossil fuel subsidies by 2023.

That means big oil companies are no longer going to reduce their emissions after 2023, since they will no longer be receiving financial support from the government in the form of carbon capture tax credits and the emissions reduction fund, both of which you put forward. That is my take on the situation.

Don't you see that as money down the drain?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

No, I don't, not at all.

Fossil fuel subsidies helped boost oil and gas exploration and production. The investments we are making, however, to reduce greenhouse gas emissions and make sure we reach our climate change targets are not the same as subsidies.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

All right. That is news.

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

No, it's not news.

That's exactly what I have been saying for years.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

It's news to Mr. Guilbeault, though.

I'll be sure to pass on the message.