Evidence of meeting #25 for Natural Resources in the 44th Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was transition.
A video is available from Parliament.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John Aldag
I notice that we're at 6:00 o'clock. I'm hoping that I can squeeze an extra three minutes out of the ministers, with just a minute and a half for the Bloc and a minute and a half for the—
Liberal
Seamus O'Regan Liberal St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL
I'm afraid, Mr. Aldag, it would require your squeezing another three minutes out of Air Canada, in my case.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John Aldag
Okay. Well, if you need to go, you need to go.
I do want to thank you for being here today.
I don't know—
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
I have a point of order. Can we give Mr. Wilkinson an extra three minutes?
Liberal
Jonathan Wilkinson Liberal North Vancouver, BC
I can stay to answer the questions from the members of the NDP and Bloc Québécois.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John Aldag
Thank you, Minister Wilkinson.
I've taken time off of the first two, so it will have to be tight. Mr. Simard will have a minute and a half, and then there will be a minute and a half for Mr. Angus.
It's over to you, Mr. Simard, for a minute and a half.
Bloc
Mario Simard Bloc Jonquière, QC
I would like to pick up on what you said, Mr. Wilkinson.
You said that economic prosperity is an important factor to consider in a fair transition. I can understand that, but if you look at the definitions of a fair transition, there is one that refers to the status quo. And the definition of the status quo would mean focusing exclusively on maintaining the economic growth of the oil and gas sector.
I am in favour of economic growth. In the current context, however, oil companies are posting record profits: $2.95 billion for Suncor and $1.17 billion for Imperial Oil in the first quarter of 2022. I will never understand why you are giving a disastrous amount of public funding to these companies. I am referring just to the $2.6 billion earmarked in the budget and the $14 billion per year to Export Development Canada, or EDC, for the oil and gas sector.
Is that what you call growth?
Liberal
Jonathan Wilkinson Liberal North Vancouver, BC
Thank you for your question.
We have to work with major industries to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. All sectors of activity in Canada, whether steel, aluminum, forestry or oil and gas, are catalysts. We have to work with them to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. All these sectors must shoulder some of the responsibility in this process. They must also do it for the common good.
It is important for us to work with all sectors of industry in Canada.
Bloc
Mario Simard Bloc Jonquière, QC
To put things in perspective, I would like to point out that the Toronto-Dominion Bank released a study in 2021 that said that 50% to 75% of oil and gas workers were likely to be displaced to another sector. I find it indecent that you're giving $2.6 billion to the oil and gas sector, but you're not planning anything for the workers. The oil companies are gluttons. They're rich, and they have money coming out of their ears. So I find it appalling that $14 billion a year from EDC goes to the oil and gas sector, when we know that 50% to 75% of oil and gas workers will probably be displaced by 2050.
Once again, I find this appalling.
Liberal
Jonathan Wilkinson Liberal North Vancouver, BC
As I said, it is important that we work to reduce greenhouse gas emissions. That is what a responsible government must do. It's also important that in our vision for the future, there are low-carbon sectors, like hydrogen. In fact, we are working with the Quebec government, for example, in the hydrogen and critical minerals sectors. Of course, we're doing exactly the same thing in Alberta, Saskatchewan and British Columbia. It's our responsibility to do that and that's what we're going to do.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John Aldag
We're going to finish there.
Now we'll go to Mr. Angus for his last minute and a half.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, Minister Wilkinson, for taking the time to stay with us. It's very much appreciated.
I certainly share your view that we could have a very optimistic future, given the incredible resources and the skills that we have, but it's all dependent on our recognizing the urgency of the crisis and the necessity of our getting this right, because it is the question of the age.
When I was reading the environment commissioner's report on the handling of just transition, I was concerned when he said:
...we found that Natural Resources Canada and Employment and Social Development Canada were not prepared to support a just transition to a low‑carbon economy for workers and communities.
He also said:
The government had made a commitment to support a just transition and established a lead department.
He continued, however, that this department, Natural Resources, had not established a governance structure that would set out the related roles and did not have a plan.
My question for you is whether Natural Resources is the best place to handle an issue of just transition, which has always been about promoting Canada's resource sector. Are you equipped to handle this, given what we've seen from the environment commissioner's report?
Liberal
Jonathan Wilkinson Liberal North Vancouver, BC
Thank you, Mr. Angus.
I think one of the areas where you and I definitely do agree—and I think I agree with the commissioner as well—is the urgency of the work that needs to be done here and the importance of getting it right.
I would say to you that one of the things.... People talk a lot about the just transition, but I think the question that we actually have to ask ourselves is, transition to what? That is exactly what the regional tables that I announced today are about, which is looking at the areas of economic opportunity in each province and territory—they will be different in each province and territory—how those will evolve and what the jobs and the skills requirements are going to be, and then we need to put in place the kinds of supports for workers and communities to ensure they can actually make that transition effectively.
That is exactly what we are going to be doing, and I do think that Natural Resources Canada is the appropriate place to lead that.
NDP
Charlie Angus NDP Timmins—James Bay, ON
Excellent.
I know my time is up, but do you have a timeline on when these tables will report back so that we actually have a picture of where we're going?
Liberal
Jonathan Wilkinson Liberal North Vancouver, BC
These tables are collaborative with the provinces and territories. We set up the first three today. I hope there will be two more within the next few weeks, and then there will be a second tranche and a third tranche.
Each of the tables is going to set its own action plan and time frames, but I will tell you that we're looking for concrete action plans to be developed within three or four months—very short periods of time.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John Aldag
With that, we're out of time.
Ministers, thanks to both of you for being here with us. I think we've had officials on standby, so thank you to them.
You're free to go—
Liberal
Seamus O'Regan Liberal St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL
I want to commend you on delaying my Air Canada flight by 30 minutes. That never happens—well done.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John Aldag
We're here to please.
The importance of this committee is not to be understated. We'll go to no end to make sure we hear from expert witnesses, so thank you for being here today.
Folks, we have the next panel on standby. We don't need to adjourn or suspend so we'll just bring the next group right in. As soon as we have everybody showing on the screen, we'll get right into the next round of questions.
I believe we'll be starting with Mr. Maguire.
Do we need to sing Happy Birthday or can we just go right into questions?
Conservative
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John Aldag
I want to welcome Mr. Gaheer to the committee.
While we're getting everybody brought in, I'll just mention who we have joining us for this next hour.
Thank you to the witnesses for being here with us and for waiting for us to get started today. We've had one of those days full of votes and that has delayed our start.
From the Canadian Federation of Agriculture, we have Keith Currie, first vice-president, and Frank Annau, environment and science policy director.
If I get the pronunciation of anybody's name wrong, feel free to reintroduce yourself when you have your opening statements.
We also have, from the Canadian Critical Minerals and Materials Alliance, Ian London, executive director; from the Quebec Forest Industry Council, Jean-François Samray, president and CEO; and from the Grain Growers of Canada, Branden Leslie, manager, policy and government relations.
I realize that some people may have to leave early during the meeting, so feel free to drop off when you need to go.
Because some of you may not have been before committee before, I'll note that we have simultaneous translation happening. On your screens, and for Mr. Leslie, who is here, you can choose floor, which is the language being used in live time, or English or French. We ask people to remain muted. For those on screen, you'll have to unmute yourselves.
I use a card system. When the time is within 30 seconds of ending, I give the yellow card. When the time is up, we give the red card. Don't stop in mid-sentence. Just wind up your thought, and then we'll move to the next person.
With that, we're ready to get going. We have opening statements.
Mr. Currie, we'll go with you for your five-minute opening statement, and we'll just move into questions as quickly as we can.
If you're ready, you have the floor for five minutes.
