Natural Resources Committee on March 10th, 2023

[Carmen Santoro]

Yes. Thank you for bringing that up.

I mentioned that in my earlier testimony. It is a serious concern. The International Association of Fire Fighters has worked with this government and has had approval for training for 1,000 firefighters for wildland fires. Unfortunately, it's moving rather slowly, but that training would certainly help mitigate any risk with buildings close to forestry.

[Earl Dreeshen, Conservative, Red Deer—Mountain View, AB]

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Thanks, Mr. Dreeshen.

We will now go to Mr. Sorbara.

We're good on the clock, so, Mr. Sorbara, the floor is yours.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Thank you, Chair.

Good morning to everyone. Happy Friday.

I'd first like to go to the Quebec Forestry Council.

Good morning, Mr. Samray.

Jean-François, you mentioned three things that you thought were important with regard to the usage of wood and how we look at the utilization of mass timber in construction. Can you just quickly point those three items out? I think it's important that they be noted again.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

I'm sorry, Mr. Sorbara; we have just lost Mr. Samray.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Okay, I will—

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

He's dropped off. We'll try to find him and bring him back. My apologies. He was here, and now he's gone.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

That's no problem. I'll go over to the gentleman from Cranbrook in British Columbia.

Jeff, in terms of the United Steelworkers Union, I agree with a lot of your comments about rural areas, especially in British Columbia, where you have sawmills and pulp mills and pulp and paper mills, which I worked on when I was younger, in a much younger time period of my life. Can you comment on how important it is that we look at wood and its different usage now?

[Jeff Bromley]

The point about obtaining more value out of our timber and our forest resources across the country, not only in British Columbia but in all of our boreal forests across the country, is that it goes without saying that if we can extract more value out of the renewable resource, it pays off in spades in terms of more jobs, more communities that they support, and things of that nature. I think it's a bit of a misnomer in our industry. Many times the industry is tagged with our producing two-by-fours, and that's about it.

It's unfortunate, because the products that we make across the industry from the resource are multi-faceted. Even more, the recent mass timber and CLT focus is a product that is gaining momentum but has been around for quite a few years. As I mentioned in my opening, there are many structures that were built in the 1950s where you can see these beautiful, blue laminated beams that are a value-added product that was made by our industry, so it's extremely important.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Thank you, Jeff. I want to quickly pivot to the fire chiefs who are here, and the representatives from IAFF.

Thank you to you and all your members for what you do on a daily basis as first responders in the country and really all over the world. My hat's off to them, and I want to give a quick shout-out to the Vaughan Professional Fire Fighters Association here, who we have a great working relationship with.

I'm glad we mentioned Bill C-224, which was passed in the House of Commons. I think that's another great step to recognize the efforts of firefighters.

With regard to your comments, I just want to clarify. With regard to mass timber and any concerns there versus concerns with existing building codes in Canada to make sure that firefighters are kept safe when they are called, it was exactly commented by Mr. Santoro that this is one occupation in which you can't just shy away from a dangerous work situation. Could I get some clarification there, please?

[Keven Lefebvre]

Mass timber and its code adoption has happened fairly quickly, and I've said a few times over the last number of years that innovation is moving faster than the fire service can adapt to the innovation. We're not comfortable with six-storey buildings right now, and we're already at 12 and higher. Innovation is happening way more quickly.... There's not the money in place for training. There's not the awareness of how to deal with some of these buildings on their worst day. We're not against innovation. We just need help with being prepared for it.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Mr. Santoro.

[Carmen Santoro]

I think through the building code and the fire codes, as I said, through the stairwells, we need a higher rating for those types of wood structures, to help get people out. Just as importantly, firefighters are going in. We just need the opportunity to get out, get out alive and slow down that burn rate. We're relying on all of you to ensure that you give us that opportunity.

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Thank you, sir.

Back to you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

You still have a minute left. Do you want to pass the time to anybody else, or...?

[Francesco Sorbara, Liberal, Vaughan—Woodbridge, ON]

Oh, no, I can finish up. I didn't realize.

I'll go back to Mr. Bromley, if we haven't gotten back the gentleman from the Quebec Forest Industry Council. I see the clerk saying no.

Okay, I'll go back to you, Mr. Bromley. Have you seen some of the benefits of the use of mass timber in terms of employment growth within the wood products sector in B.C.? You're correct that the connotation of just sending out logs to Japan, or two-by-fours or two-by-sixes, is far from what the actual industry does.

[Jeff Bromley]

There's no question. You've seen examples of that right here in my neck of the woods, for lack of a better term, in southeastern British Columbia and in southern British Columbia, too. One of our operations in Penticton, Structurlam, employs over 200 of our members, producing mass timber and CLT products. A bit closer to me, over in West Kootenay, in Thrums, just north of Castlegar, B.C., there is the Kalesnikoff facility, which is really brand new—built over the last three or four years—employing about 100 members. There is certainly that.... It's growing. It needs to.... As I said in my comments, using the existing infrastructure and the manufacturing production facilities we have to encourage employers to shift is the way to go.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Okay. We're out of time there.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Mr. Chair, may I seek unanimous consent to suspend the meeting for two minutes so that Mr. Samray can reconnect?

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

I was going to see if we want to change the order. If Charlie also wants to direct questions to Mr. Samray, we can suspend while we try to get him back on. If Charlie's question is going to be for someone else, I'm happy to put Charlie next, which gives us an extra six minutes.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Okay.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Charlie, would you like to go now, or do you want us to—

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Yes, I'm willing to go in order for Mr. Samray to come on so that Mr. Simard can get his questions in. I think that would be fair.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Here, let me restart the clock.

We go over to you, Mr. Angus, for six minutes.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Mr. Bromley, I was really interested in your discussion about the role of the IRA and the work that Joe Biden is doing in terms of a major economic transformation in the United States. It doesn't look like something we'd see in Canada, with a bunch of tax credits spread around here and there. What we're looking at is a hugely comprehensive plan that's tied to sustainability, resources and good-paying union jobs. Can you elaborate a bit on the perspective of the steelworkers in terms of what Canada needs to do to stay competitive with the Biden administration's IRA?