Natural Resources Committee on May 16th, 2023

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Thank you for the question.

Yes, there is a plan. A year ago, we announced our projections for the number of trees we would plant each year. In the first year, we planted almost 100% of our targeted number of trees. For the second year, we will announce the final number in the coming months. We are well on our way—

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Thank you, Minister. I didn't mean to cut you off, but I don't have much time.

I assume you would be able to provide the committee with the work plan that the department has for planting these 2 billion trees. That is primarily my question. I would love to analyze it, and I think other people would too.

On another topic, you know I have a pretty exciting life. So yesterday I had nothing better to do than to read your mandate letter. In it, it says that you must support the Deputy Prime Minister and Minister of Finance and the Minister of Environment and Climate Change, and that you must find a way to end fossil fuel financing before 2023. In addition, you must phase out funding for the fossil fuel sector from federal Crown corporations.

To your knowledge, do you currently have a plan to eliminate funding for the fossil fuel sector? It's 2023, so I'm assuming that's moving forward.

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Thank you.

Yes. We continue to work on phasing out inefficient fossil fuel subsidies. We have already eliminated nine, but we will have an implementation plan to show the committee by the end of 2023.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

Do you have a definition of what an inefficient fossil fuel subsidy is? If so, I would love to have it.

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Yes, that will come with the plan.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

All right. So we'll have it later.

There is another passage from your mandate letter that interested me:

Work with the minister of Intergovernmental Affairs, Infrastructure and Communities [...] to support and prioritize the use of made-in-Canada low-carbon products in Canadian infrastructure projects.

I was interested when I was reading this yesterday, because here we have been looking at Bill S‑222, regarding wood utilization, which we have been trying to amend without success. In this bill, it says that the government can use wood. But I think that currently the government can already use wood. So it's a bill that doesn't mean anything, ultimately.

Is there a real plan for the government to have measures in place so that someday low carbon footprint materials will be used in government construction?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Yes. We are currently working on a strategy that promotes the purchase of clean products, which emphasizes the use of lower carbon footprint materials. So we'll have something to discuss with you and all other Canadians in the coming months.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

If I understand correctly, this is something that is in development. You can't tell me, currently, what it looks like.

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Yes. We started with cement, but there are other products, of course. We're working on a plan right now that we can share with all the departments and that will also affect all the infrastructure that we invest in with the provinces and territories.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

You saw the announcement about the $13 billion investment in the Volkswagen plant in Ontario, as I did. I'm sure you were quite pleased. At the same time, the government announced in the budget that it wants to embark on a vast electrification project. Now, what I've read about the Volkswagen facility that's going to be built in Ontario is that it's going to be gas-fired.

So it seems to me that there is a contradiction between your desire to develop an industrial sector that relies on clean energy and your $13-billion investment in a Volkswagen battery plant in Ontario that will be powered entirely by gas. Is that not a contradiction?

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Please make your response brief. We're almost out of time.

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

We are very proud of the Volkswagen announcement. Batteries are very important to the future of Ontario and Quebec. Of course we need to have a clean electricity system, and we're going to make sure we have one by 2035.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Thank you.

Mr. Angus, it's over to you for six minutes.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you, Minister, for being here.

We have a once-in-a-century opportunity, but we have a narrow window to make this happen, because if we get it wrong, it means we're going to leave workers and communities behind. When I'm talking with workers, particularly energy workers, they're saying to me that they're more than ready to step up, but they want more than promises. They've been asking for a couple of clear things and they're not sure they're getting it. They want an independent body and they want it to have a mandate. They want the legislation to ensure that they are at the table.

In the fall budget, the government talked about a sustainable jobs secretariat. Is that where workers are going to be at the table?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

As you know, Mr. Angus, we released the action plan for sustainable jobs a couple of months ago. Part of that was a commitment to bring forward legislation that we are continuing to develop and that will be introduced before the end of the year. It will have architecture. The secretariat will largely be where the federal government actually ensures that its different areas of the department are aligned. There will be a partnership council, which will certainly involve significant representation from labour.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Yes, I see that, because we were told we didn't need an independent body to be the sustainable job secretariat. Then I read that it would provide the most up-to-date information on federal programs, funding and services across government departments, which sounds to me like an office desk that puts out brochures. Then I read that the sustainable job secretariat would be a sustainable job stream under union training. Is that where they're going to be? Is the secretariat going to be training workers there?

Those are two very contradictory positions. Where is the table that labour gets to sit at and say, “We have a say in the future of our communities and in the future of our jobs?" What is the mandate?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

That will be the partnership council.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Now we have the partnership council.

I've been talking with the building trades—IBEW and Unifor in western Canada. Those are guys and women who, when management comes to them and says, “Trust us”, they're saying, “Yeah, sure. You want us to trust you. Put it in writing.”

Will the sustainable jobs partnership council have legislation? What kind of mandate will it have? What kind of role will workers have in that partnership council?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Certainly a lot of that was actually outlined in the sustainable jobs action plan, and the rest of it will be outlined in the legislation that will be forthcoming. It certainly will have a broad ambit. It will be able to provide significant input in terms of the shape of needed programming and strategic orientation going forward.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Will the mandate and what rights they have to be heard be legislated? How many seats will labour have? You must have thought this out. Who's going to be at that council? Will it meet once a year? Will they get to write in submissions, or is will this be a council that actually has the power to say that labour's voice, which represents the communities that are moving to a new economy, is going to have a say to make sure that money's spent well?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

Yes, the focus very much is on the economic opportunities—ensuring that we seize them, ensuring that we are creating good jobs for workers and for the communities they live in. That is certainly something that will be discussed in the legislation. It's certainly something that you and I have discussed on a number of occasions. As we continue to evolve the legislation, we continue to look for input from folks, very much including you.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I appreciate that.

What I'm hearing from labour is that they want to see it in writing. They want to see it in the legislation. If it's not in the legislation, it's going to be very hard for me—and much harder for you—to go and reassure them.

There are so many moving parts here. This brings me to the other part, which is the regional round tables.

They talk about union partners in the regional round tables, yet I've never met a union that's been involved in any of the round tables. Who's at those round tables? Does labour get to sit at the table, or do they have to sit in another room and get called on once in awhile?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

The regional tables are set up a little bit differently in different provinces and territories. It's not just a federal initiative; it is a federal-provincial initiative.

There are different issues and different ways of structuring things in different provinces. I would say the two provinces that are the most advanced are British Columbia and Newfoundland and Labrador. In fact, we will be making an announcement with respect to where we're at with the British Columbia process very soon. That is a tripartite process. It involves indigenous peoples, it involves the provincial and federal governments, and it also provides space for and engagement with labour and with industry, and there have been early engagements with both of those. There will be much more going forward.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I guess what I'm hearing is that getting called to a round table on the side isn't the same as being at the table. If that's not happening in B.C., I don't see it happening anywhere else.

You say this is a federal-provincial partnership, but the feds are driving this agenda, so you get to say, to some degree, if we're going to do this federal-provincial partnership, who's at the table. Is labour at the table? Are first nations at the table? Or are they in another room, and they get called on once in a while for advice?

[Jonathan Wilkinson, Liberal, North Vancouver, BC]

This is a consensual process with the provinces and territories. It is not just a federal initiative, and it does look different in different parts of the country. In British Columbia where we are working with, as you would know, an NDP government, it's a tripartite process that includes indigenous peoples, but there is significant opportunity for engagement on the part of labour and industry.