That is my concern, because I've seen three of our pulp and paper operations shut down, and people are desperate. If the company comes back and says, “We'll continue to cut and save some jobs”, there will be a push to make that happen, but if the company that is shutting those mills down is doing it so that it can continue to cut and ship to China, I have a problem with that.
I want to close on questioning you. I was contacted by a Canadian executive who told me that, when he had to meet with Asia Pulp & Paper, they told him he had to talk to Jackson Wijaya. Are we being taken for suckers here? Are Jackson Wijaya and the Wijaya family, Asia Pulp & Paper, Sinar Mas...? Are they in control of Paper Excellence? We have not done a review of it. Are they in control of 22 million hectors of forest?
Is Jackson Wijaya part of Asia Pulp & Paper as far you've been able to ascertain?