Thank you very much.
I guess I could go back to the point where I said that we have 338 ridings where this is significant. We need to talk about the concerns that Canadians have, that regions have and that provinces have about how things are dealt with. We need to look at how industry is managing this, and the only way you can do that is to talk about the way the government has put obstacles in the way of industry and set up barriers where one part of the country is working against another part of the country. That is my rationale, and that is where I will continue from.
This contribution we had in Berlin was probably one of the first times where I had to sit there and say that I have to speak against this, because this was not the best way. It was obvious that it was simply presented to the group as window dressing to say, “Hey, this is what we're doing, so we'd sure like to have this other group on our side to do this.” It did pass, especially at that time—that was about six years or so ago. They were about as Conservative-minded as they are now, so it did pass. Therefore, we could merrily come back and say that the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe also believes the carbon tax is a significant part of this.
We have that in a couple of different regions. For example, if you are going to be in the club of the European Union, you have to commit to some sort of engagement with and development of a carbon price, which kind of ties into what Canada said a number of years ago in Berlin. I can't see why Canada would be the one pushing it, but I can see where that discussion would come into play.
We can fast-forward to a McKinsey report that came out in 2019 and talked about carbon pricing in Europe and the engagement associated with that. I believe it was Poland that was at the rate of $1 per tonne at that time. I think Sweden was at $159 or $179 at that time, and we had Ukraine at 38¢, so that was it in 2019. To be fair, in 2019, Canada's carbon price was $20, so there was a 56:1 ratio involved there. Yes, Ukraine said, “Okay, to be part of this group, we're part of the carbon tax.”
If you look at where we are now, it is $60, and I believe Ukraine is around 83¢, so that is probably closer to a 75:1 ratio as far as the tax is concerned. Where does that put us? We know we want to help. That's what the OSCE was about. It speaks about food security and energy security, and, at that particular point in time, with Russia's incursions into Georgia and other places, and Crimea as well, all of those things were discussion points.
We can fast-forward to Birmingham in 2022, and we have similar arguments, except this time Canada came with a plan for the transition away from hydrocarbons. Again, it's very confusing as to why the greatest developer of hydrocarbons on earth would go there with its hands up and say, “Handcuff us. We're ready to show just how committed we are, because we know how committed our environment ministry, our natural resources and our Prime Minister are to respecting a signature that says if something is going to be done, it's going to be done by us first, and we will lead the charge.”
At the meeting where we were presenting this, the Czech Republic presented a motion, more or less saying, “Well, that's great. We want to talk about that. However, we would like to have respected the types of energy sources that we have in our boundaries, so that we are not bound by such stringent rules that indicate how great it would be if the world could get off hydrocarbons and how quickly they could get off hydrocarbons.” It was presented.
Once again, in order to make the changes that were associated with this amendment—and there were a few other changes there—the only way would have been if they had unanimous consent to do so.
I feel bad, but I had to make sure we did not have unanimous consent to do that. I know that people I care about a lot probably looked at me and asked why I was doing that. The reason is that you had the Czech Republic, along with many other countries in Europe, saying, “With the conflict that we have here in Europe, we need every sort of fuel we can get. We need to go back and reconsider the plans to mothball nuclear. We know that we're going to be doing more deforestation. We have those areas that had oil and gas.”
They didn't want to upset the organization they were with, but they wanted to be respected. That was the rationale and the reason for doing what I did.
It's difficult when you're put into that position, and it's more difficult when you come from a part of the country where, in the 15 years that I have been a member of Parliament....
I remember the very first time, when I was just running.... This guy came to me and said, “I want you to know that Alberta's and Canada's oil and gas industry is the very best in the world.” The only place that was coming close to it, he said at that time, was Australia. He said it was because they had taken what we had done and implemented that into their procedures and regulations. That made me proud.
It made me proud to stand up for our indigenous groups who were engaged with oil and gas. It made me proud to stand up for those in my community who work so diligently on oil and gas. Quite frankly, it gave me a sense of pride. I knew that I could go to other parts of this country, as a member of Parliament, and speak highly about what we did and therefore speak highly about what they do. We could all work together. As Canadians, we are experts in that field, as we are experts in other fields.
That's what we're dealing with right now.
It saddens me to look at the last five or six years and see serious division. I've seen division between groups. The biggest thing we do in this place.... When I first got involved in politics, I said that the worst thing you can do is to label people, label groups, label organizations. That's cheap and easy, and it doesn't show that you actually care about knowing more about what is taking place.
When we think about Canada and how we can take our natural resources.... I remember being part of ParlAmericas, and I remember going to Mexico. I believe we were in Mexico City. We had, at that time, the Bloc with us, and we had the Liberals with us and the NDP with us.
I might have said some things that were not exactly nice about the government in Europe. I suppose I learned that from some of my Liberal colleagues who were with me in Mexico City. However, leaving that aside, I remember a person from the Bloc. What they said was, “I love Canada”—