Natural Resources Committee on Feb. 8th, 2024

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Investors and foreign investors are clearly looking and paying attention to what Canada is doing. We're the third in the world now for foreign direct investment, after the U.S. and Brazil. That's an absolute number. It's not per capita. Per capita, we are number one. I think investors are looking at what we're doing and saying that Canada is an interesting place to invest.

I agree with you. We need to hurry up while we make sure we do things properly in terms of consultations with indigenous nations and with fishermen when it comes to offshore oil, which is what IAAC has been doing.

I'm confident that in terms of the impact assessments, consultations and the fiscal framework with the tax credits, by the end of this year we will be in a position where we can see projects moving forward.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Thank you for that. I guess the question is also a question of accountability for what we have. There's a recent report that came out that says that pollution coming out of the oil sands is 6,000 times higher than is officially reported. It's a staggering number. In any other industry or any business, there would be recalls, yet the Pathways Alliance spokesman said, the oil sands industry “measures emissions using standards set by Environment and Climate Change Canada”.

How is it that Environment and Climate Change Canada allowed such a vast discrepancy in terms of what is actually coming out and polluting and making people sick?

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

This is a very good question. In the monitoring of emissions, whether in that case volatile organic compounds or CO2 or methane, the techniques to detect and measure these are ever-evolving. In fact, you speak of that study that points to a 6,000% higher number than what is reported. Environment and Climate Change Canada was part of the group that made that study. We invest massively as an institution to ensure that we have the best possible science when it comes to measuring these things, and now that we have this new science, we will be forced to take actions to make sure—

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

That's actually what I want to get to, because we also have a 2023 study that said methane emissions coming out of Alberta are underestimated by 50%, and I think we would agree that methane is a planet killer.

You're talking about creating a cap. Is that cap going to include the new data on 6,000% higher emissions, or are we going to cap on the previous data? Because if your data was that wrong, how do we reassure the public that we're going to have a plan in place to address what is actually coming out and affecting the planet?

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

The study you referred to is not about greenhouse gas emissions, but is about another form of pollutants. I'm not saying it's less important, but—

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

[Inaudible—Editor] plus the other organics.

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

In terms of methane, we used a methodology that was developed by the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, the IPCC. We just revised it two years ago. We've redone all of our inventories based on new methane methodologies, and we will continue doing that as science evolves over time.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Would the cap include that new data?

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

The more up-to-date data will be included for the cap.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Thank you, Minister and Mr. Angus, for your round of questioning. I'm sure you'll get another opportunity to continue that line of questioning.

We'll now move to the next round of five minutes with Mr. Small.

Go ahead, the floor is yours.

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Guilbeault, I'll ask you a similar question. I won't quote the question that I asked Mr. Tessier.

How important is stability and certainty of regulations in worldwide energy in terms of investment? How important is it?

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Can you specify the question? It's a rather broad question. I can give you a very broad answer, but do you have anything more specific in...?

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

You can give me a short, broad answer if you like. How important is stability and certainty of regulations in the development of and the investment in worldwide energy?

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

As I was telling your colleague earlier, Canada ranks third in the world for foreign direct investment. That means that investors from all around the world are looking at all the investment opportunities they have, and they chose Canada as the top three place to do that. I think that speaks volumes about investors. I can't speak on behalf...but money talks—

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Do you know what? In the Gulf of Mexico last year, nearly $400 million was committed to the purchasing of offshore leases. We had a record offering in Newfoundland and Labrador last year, and we had zero purchases. It was one of the very few times in the history of our offshore oil and gas, and in a year that we had record numbers of parcels offered up.

Does that sound like confidence in Newfoundland and Labrador's offshore oil and gas?

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

I can say it again. International investors are looking to Canada as one of the top places in the world to put their money. That's what we're seeing. In terms of the oil and gas sector, you've probably seen the reports, as I have, from the International Energy Agency or even our own independent energy regulator, which estimate that, by the end of the decade, demand for oil will peak by around 2028. I think investigators are starting to wonder if they should continue investing in the development—

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

Mr. Guilbeault, I'm sure it warms the cockles of your heart to see what your government's done—

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

I'm talking about international figures—

[Clifford Small, Conservative, Coast of Bays—Central—Notre Dame, NL]

—to destroy the confidence in Newfoundland and Labrador's offshore oil and gas industry with Bill C-69, on which we're waiting to see version two, because it's unconstitutional. That was referenced over 30 times.

We have this bill—

[Yvonne Jones, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

I have a point of order, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to point out to the committee that following testimony last week by the C-NLOPB—

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Chair, this is debate.

[Yvonne Jones, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

—we asked if they felt that the industry was being held hostage by any legislation in this bill or previous bills—

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

This is not a point of order. This is debate.

[Yvonne Jones, Liberal, Labrador, NL]

—and they answered “no”. The same answer was given by the CNSOPB as well.

[Ted Falk, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

This is debate.