Natural Resources Committee on Feb. 8th, 2024

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Minister, you just told a completely different version of an answer that you previously gave. You said that the government does not measure the annual amount of emissions that are directly reduced by federal carbon pricing. It seems we have two different versions of the facts here.

I'm very much aware that the government produces the national inventory report. The last year that it is available is 2021, which shows that emissions actually went up over 2020, but you'll also recall that in 2020 and 2021, the country was locked down. The only reason that your emissions went down is that the country was undergoing massive lockdowns and people were not travelling due to the COVID pandemic, so—

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Mr. Patzer, your time is up. I'll ask the minister for a brief response.

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

We were no longer in a pandemic in 2021, and Canada has the best performance of all G7 countries. Our emissions in 2021 were below 2019, which was before the pandemic.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Thank you, Minister.

We have our final round of questioning from Mr. Battiste for five minutes.

Welcome to committee, Mr. Battiste. The floor is yours, sir.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I'd like to start off by reading something into the record, because I want to correct the record.

As part of the honour of being the member of Parliament for Sydney—Victoria, I get to represent the Mi’kmaq community of Membertou, which is a part of the EverWind project. The EverWind CEO said:

Without the passage of Bill C-49, a powerful message will be sent to industry that politics killed a critical green industry and denied Atlantic Canada a chance to join economies around the world investing in Offshore Wind.

We implore our political leaders to support this critical work with the passage of Bill C-49.

I know that the minister just read off that the premiers are very much in support of this in the Atlantic. We have indigenous communities calling for it, as well as industry. It seems like there is quite a bit of support for this, and I just wanted to correct the record from what the Conservatives were saying on this.

Also, I wanted to contrast a little bit from their general narrative on this legislation, starting off, Minister Guilbeault, by thanking you for your environmental activism in your life. As a Mi’kmaq person, I've grown up with the indigenous knowledge that we are connected to the land. We belong to it and we consider ourselves the original stewards of the land. Within our language, we have a word, netukulimk, which makes it clear that we have a duty and responsibility to our environment.

Like yourself, I was an activist. I remember, during the Conservative Harper era, being a part of the Idle No More protests. The Conservatives had gutted environmental regulations, and they had failed to protect our oceans. In fact, they had only protected 1% of the oceans that were out there.

I wonder if you could give a little bit of a sense of why it's important for us to take steps to protect our oceans and to ensure that we are reaching our goal of protecting 30% of our marine protected areas by 2030? Why is this going to have a tremendous benefit, not only to the world but to the Atlantic?

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

Thank you for the question.

I obviously agree with the statement that you read, for the first part.

The goal that was adopted in Montreal at the end of 2022 at COP15, which was to protect at least 30% of land and waters by 2030, is not a number that was picked out of a hat. It's based on a number of international scientific studies that show that this is the minimum. It's not a ceiling; it's a floor. It's the minimum that is needed to help our ecosystems, globally, start to recuperate from decades of overuse of our natural resources across the globe.

If we want our kids and grandkids to have access to a healthy planet with clean water, clean air and fewer impacts of climate change, this is the first thing we need to do. There are many things we need to do, but this is the first step. Nature, in our fight against climate change, is our biggest ally.

[Jaime Battiste, Liberal, Sydney—Victoria, NS]

Thank you for that, Minister.

I'm a Cape Breton member of Parliament, so I appreciate your words talking about our fight against climate change. We're dealing with day four of an extreme weather event in Cape Breton, where we've seen more than 150 centimetres of snow, something that no elders in my community or in our records can show has ever happened before. This is just 16 to 18 months after Hurricane Fiona, which we had never seen before. We're seeing rivers wash away the Cabot Trail because of climate change.

What are the steps we're taking now to address what's going to be happening later? We know that climate change is real. We know that it's happening, and it's hitting coastal communities harder than most areas. Why is it so important for us to do the work we're doing for the environment?

[Steven Guilbeault, Liberal, Laurier—Sainte-Marie, QC]

There are three things I'd like to say.

First, we can't fight climate change unless we reduce our dependencies on fossil fuels. That's in Canada and that's around the world. That's number one, so we need to reduce our emissions.

Second, we need to have a strategy to prepare Canada and Canadians for the impacts of climate change. They're here; we're seeing them. You mentioned many of them. We could talk about the forest fires across the country. We could talk about the droughts that we're seeing in the Prairies. Right now in Alberta, we're talking about rationing water because of low precipitation.

The third thing I'd like to say is that, just before Christmas, the Conservative Party voted against a half-billion dollar program to support victims of natural catastrophes. I find it unconscionable that they would prevent money going to people in times of need as we face the ever-increasing impacts of climate change.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Thank you, MP Battiste, for your line of questioning.

Thank you, Minister, for your answers today. Thank you for joining us for a full hour. It's always great to see you come to the natural resources committee.

Thank you to all the officials who also came to join the minister. You're all welcome to come back again, and we hope to see you again soon.

Thank you again, Minister, and have a great evening.

Colleagues, we'll now suspend to change panels.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

I call this meeting back to order.

Pursuant to the order of reference of Tuesday, October 17, 2023, and the adopted motion of Wednesday, December 13, 2023, the committee is resuming consideration of Bill C-49, an act to amend the Canada—Newfoundland and Labrador Atlantic Accord Implementation Act and the Canada-Nova Scotia Offshore Petroleum Resources Accord Implementation Act and to make consequential amendments to other acts.

In accordance with our routine motions, I'm informing the committee that all remote participants have completed the required connection tests in advance of the meeting. We do have two witnesses who are providing testimony and are still undergoing their connection tests.

We will start with our first speaker today, while the others get everything in order. Hopefully it's in good working condition when they begin.

Our first witness for the second hour, from the Fish, Food and Allied Workers Union, is Katie Power, industry relations representative. We also have Oceans North with Susanna Fuller, vice-president, conservation and projects. From SeaBlue Canada, we have Jennifer Josenhans, national coordinator.

We will begin with Katie Power from the Fish, Food and Allied Workers Union.

You have five minutes for an opening statement. The floor is yours.

[Katie Power, Industry Relations Representative, Fish, Food and Allied Workers Union]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

On behalf of over 14,000 of our members from Newfoundland and Labrador, thank you for the opportunity to address the standing committee on Bill C-49.

The Fish, Food and Allied Workers Union represents every inshore fish harvester in our province, encompassing approximately 3,000 owner-operator enterprises and over 7,000 crew members. As the union representing fish harvesters and processing workers, FFAW is a primary advocate for the economic and social growth of coastal communities throughout our province.

Today, as the sole fisheries representative from Newfoundland and Labrador to address the standing committee on this bill, I am here to underscore the concerns expressed by other regions and share a critical perspective for mitigating potential impacts to the inshore fishery of our province.

I will note that I was given approximately 24 hours' notice to speak today. This feels dismissive and rushed, which is comparable to the legislation to be discussed.

Our inshore fishery contributes over $1 billion annually to the provincial economy from a renewable and historically significant marine resource. Offshore wind energy expansion has a direct impact on fish harvesters, who will be faced with competition for ocean space and who will be absolutely affected by new infrastructure. Co-location and coexistence of the existing commercial fishery and new offshore wind energy represents a major unanswered concern for our province's fishing industry.

To clarify, FFAW, in its representation of the owner-operator fishery in Newfoundland and Labrador, has not been consulted or engaged, by governments or otherwise, on Bill C-49 but serves to be directly impacted by it. In the absence of the appropriate consultation framework not currently built into this bill for adherence, undue conflict amongst fisheries stakeholders, other ocean user groups, future investors and developers of offshore wind energy is inevitable.

FFAW has been thoroughly engaged in the ongoing regional assessment for offshore wind. Participation on both a staff and harvester level has been immense, reflective of the magnitude of potential impacts and indicative of a desire to be involved. However, this regional assessment has no application in this legislation, and the recommendations of the regional assessment committee to governments are not legally binding.

This, coupled with the complete lack of communication from local governments, leaves the fishing industry with no reassurance, no safeguards for mitigation and an overall lack of trust or faith in the process as it is presently being pursued.

Had our provincial government participated in any aspect of the regional assessment, it would be profoundly aware of the vocal opposition to offshore wind in our province at this time. Insufficient communication and the lack of transparency for offshore wind means we must look to other jurisdictions for support. FFAW has met with existing players in offshore wind to better understand the realities of fisheries interactions.

Most recently, we met with Xodus Group, a global energy consultancy, with interests in Boston and Scotland. Its take-home message was entirely in hindsight, explaining that it had done things wrong. In Canada, we have a great opportunity to learn from its mistakes. It said the fishing industry must be deeply engaged in the earliest phases of offshore wind to increase trust and understanding and to ensure all avoidance mitigation can proceed.

The fishing industry will be the most disrupted, as the succession of the industry relies on sustainable practices that preserve biodiversity and sensitive habitat conditions. Subversion of this habitat, which is often irrevocable, will directly cause the displacement of valuable fisheries. Governments must ensure they support locally relevant research initiatives ahead of any installations, and thoughtfully and meaningfully consider fisheries as a priority. From a Newfoundland and Labrador perspective, none of that has occurred.

Our province is unique in many ways, perhaps the most prolific being our geography as an island. Our rural and coastal communities have relied on fish harvesting to provide sustenance and economic stability for generations, and this practice continues as a vibrant industry. Insights and experiential knowledge provided by fish harvesters will serve as an invaluable resource. It is reckless and irresponsible to jeopardize this rural reliance, given the vast uncertainty of potential negative effects.

FFAW members in coastal communities will be negatively and disproportionately affected if their fishing grounds are displaced by offshore wind. Without a robust plan for potential workforce transitions, these communities risk collapse.

In closing, it is grossly dismissive of the adjacent fishing industry to assume a bill written for the oil and gas sector can be cut and pasted into a bill for an entirely new and fundamentally different renewable energy sector. Appropriate and concise language on how fisheries groups may be compensated for losses is virtually non-existent and discredits the value and importance of our industry completely.

As elected officials, you have a fundamental responsibility to protect the valuable resources that those affected rely on for economic prosperity. While I understand the CNSOPB has a fisheries advisory committee for fisheries consultations, no such entity exists in Newfoundland and Labrador or within the C-NLOPB. The ocean topography, the coastlines, the commercial species and their distributions in our respective provinces are vastly different and need to be approached as such. We have no mechanism to support imperative consultations for offshore wind and fishing industries, and to date, there have been none. We fear that the committee may pass this bill without sufficient, necessary and meaningful consultations.

As a key stakeholder, FFAW-Unifor is committed to all consultation that will be required moving forward in support of a just transition to greener, less fossil fuel-dependent technologies; however, the growth of one industry cannot be at the expense of another.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Thank you for your opening statement.

Colleagues, we'll suspend for a moment to do connection tests for the other two witnesses.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

We're back.

We will now go to Susanna Fuller from Oceans North for her opening statement.

You have five minutes.

[Susanna Fuller, Vice-President, Operations and Projects, Oceans North]

Thank you for inviting me here today.

I'll briefly introduce myself. I work for Oceans North as the VP of conservation and projects, but I also grew up in rural Nova Scotia and I sit as an adviser to the Minister of Environment in Nova Scotia on the round table for the Environmental Goals and Climate Change Reduction Act. Almost exactly 10 years ago, I had the pleasure of releasing an economic report for Nova Scotia that really spoke to having to take some leaps and bounds of faith as we moved forward to changing the economic outcomes and future for Atlantic Canada.

I very much appreciate speaking to you today on this important bill. I think we want to express our general support for the amendments to the Atlantic accord agreement as proposed in Bill C-49. We hear the concerns of our colleagues in the fishing industry and look forward to working with them to make sure there are adequate community benefits and consultations. There are many lessons learned around the world—from as nearby as Rhode Island to as far away as across the pond in Scotland—with respect to how to make sure that communities benefit and that fishermen are the beneficiaries of rather than being impacted by new industries in the ocean.

Our support comes from the following interests and areas of work: first, advocating for and demonstrating the potential for zero-emissions marine industries and the necessity of energy transition; and, second, strengthening the protection standards for the marine protected areas that we have put in place, often in collaboration with and working closely with the fishing industry.

On the first item, we are involved in the regional assessment process for offshore wind in both Nova Scotia and Newfoundland, and we are advocating, again, as I mentioned, for community benefits but also thinking about the opportunities for the marine industries and inshore fisheries, in particular, to start to electrify nearshore work boats and then to build out this bidirectional charging infrastructure at fishing wharves. Offshore winds can help us do that, as long as the communities that are nearby are the beneficiaries of some of that energy.

We know we need to do energy projects differently from how we have done them in the past. The recent and landmark Blueberry decision in B.C. requires the Impact Assessment Act and project proponents to address cumulative environmental impacts at all stages of projects. We're not seeing this yet as part of the regional assessment, but we need to. Bill C-49 can help with this. We also must work with the communities, as we mentioned, to make sure they are benefiting from public resources. We know that electricity prices are going up, and we know that in Atlantic Canada we rely on oil more than any other—

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

I'm sorry, Ms. Fuller, but we're getting a signal from interpretation that your sound quality is not up to the level they need to interpret.

I would ask that you send a brief with your opening statement to the clerk, which you may already have done, so that we can provide that.

[Susanna Fuller]

Yes, I've done that.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

We will translate it and distribute it to the members.

[Susanna Fuller]

Okay.

Do you want me to stop now, or do you want me to continue more slowly?

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Yes, you can stay on. Unfortunately, we will have to ask you to stop at this point.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I have a point of order.

Given that we're getting testimony on what's happening and that the provincial regional assessment is really important, is there a way we can actually do another test? I feel like I'm losing out on a chance to ask questions.

I can read her brief, but I want to find out more details about the provincial assessment process, whether or not the feds are living up to it and how it works. Not having her testimony would be very problematic for me.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

I understand that your testimony is important, Ms. Fuller.

What we can do, colleagues, is that, if you could, provide your questions and we can get a response back. I know it can be challenging or difficult, but unfortunately we do need interpretation for all colleagues to be able to participate.

Ms. Fuller, I'm just going to ask you to hold for a moment.

We have another point of order from Mr. Patzer.

[Jeremy Patzer, Conservative, Cypress Hills—Grasslands, SK]

Mr. Chair, I'm just wondering if there's any way that we could take 20 seconds. I noticed that she adjusted the boom on her mike down a considerable amount, and I do think there's a chance that her interpretation might be clearer now.

I'm just wondering if we could just offer her a quick 20-second courtesy to try again quickly and then—

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Sure.

We'll try that, Ms. Fuller. We're going to suspend and recheck.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

I'm going to unsuspend the meeting.

We'll start with your opening statement, Ms. Josenhans, but you can stay on the line, Ms. Fuller.

[Jennifer Josenhans, National Coordinator, SeaBlue Canada]

Thank you, Chair.

On behalf of SeaBlue Canada, I would like to thank the committee for the opportunity to provide input on Bill C-49.

For some context, SeaBlue Canada is a coalition of eight of Canada's most active and well-respected environmental non-governmental organizations. We work collaboratively to ensure that Canada’s marine protected area commitments are ambitious, equitable and ultimately provide meaningful protection to marine species and habitats. This is not only for the health of the animals and plants within the ocean. It's also for the people on the coast and beyond who rely on the ocean for their well-being.

I am the national coordinator, and I will speak on behalf of the coalition, outlining the key points from our written submission. While I am here to provide input through the lens of a coalition working on supporting the delivery of the government’s marine conservation targets, on a personal note, I am also a resident of Nova Scotia and more specifically the small coastal town of Lunenburg. I have a vested personal interest in maintaining the health of the ocean in Atlantic Canada and also beyond. Many livelihoods within my town rely on a healthy ocean. Our community can only thrive when the seas around us thrive.

Let me preface by saying that SeaBlue Canada supports the development of marine renewable energy as part of the clean energy response to the climate crisis. However, marine renewable energy projects must be managed responsibly and sustainably to minimize impacts to the marine environment and in a way that benefits local communities. Furthermore, to address the climate crisis, the introduction of marine renewable energy in Canada must be complemented by an equitable transition away from offshore oil and gas production.

SeaBlue Canada supports the amendments—specifically, the amendments proposed under clauses 26 to 28 and clauses 135 to 137 in the bill—that would protect the marine environment by enabling the prevention of offshore oil and gas and renewable energy activities within areas that have been identified for conservation or protection. These amendments are essential to protect marine biodiversity. They will also help to facilitate the clean energy transition through the development of offshore renewable energy while supporting marine wildlife. We strongly believe these two priorities can coexist and are indeed compatible.

Bill C-49 and the offshore accord acts that it amends form an important part of Canada’s ocean management framework and will contribute to achieving Canada’s conservation goals on the Atlantic coast. As you will know, and as was referenced earlier in the session, Canada has committed to protecting 25% of the ocean by 2025, to working towards protecting 30% by 2030 and to working to halt and reverse biodiversity loss.

In line with the federal minimum protection standard—incidentally, announced exactly one year ago today at IMPAC5—the federal government has committed to prohibiting oil and gas activities within all new federal MPAs and avoiding or mitigating industrial activities that pose risks to biodiversity outcomes within OECMs.

There is significant evidence to support that oil and gas activities are incompatible with marine conservation. As well, a growing body of evidence indicates that offshore renewable energy projects can have the potential to impact marine ecosystems without careful management. Notably, there is no legal mechanism under the current offshore accord acts to allow for the surrender or cancellation of oil and gas leases within areas set aside for environmental protection.

Bill C-49 would address this gap by enabling the federal and provincial governments to pass regulations that prohibit offshore oil and gas or renewable energy projects within areas that have been identified for protection. It would also allow the government to negotiate for the surrender of interests within these areas. The passing of this legislation with these provisions will allow the Government of Canada and provincial governments to demonstrate their strong commitment to marine protection and will assure stakeholders that the government has the legal tools required to ensure that protected areas are truly protected.

There is currently no explicit or clear law or policy in Canada that addresses offshore renewable energy in MPAs. Bill C-49 would provide Canada and the Atlantic provinces with the legal tools to sustainably and responsibly manage offshore renewable energy in the offshore accord act areas, and set a precedent for a similar legislative framework in the rest of Canada’s ocean estate.

In conclusion, SeaBlue Canada recommends that the committee pass Bill C-49 in a timely manner to ensure that these marine conservation provisions may be implemented as soon as possible and in time for Canada to achieve its conservation targets for 2025.

On behalf of the coalition, I would like to reiterate my thanks to the committee for the opportunity to present our views. We very much look forward to seeing the proposed offshore renewable energy provisions in Bill C-49 passed into law.

Thank you.