Natural Resources Committee on Feb. 15th, 2024

[Andrew Parsons]

There are just a couple of things.

Certainly, I still believe that Bay du Nord is not just a probability. I do think it will happen. At the same time, when we talk about the term “diversification”, this is the opportunity for true diversification when we can have an offshore that is not just oil and not just gas, but when we can talk about wind and renewables. We're going to require that expertise, whether it's people who transition from the non-renewables into renewables or the opportunity for people to come home.

A couple of things I would point out are that when we originally started talking about wind energy in Newfoundland and Labrador, it was amazing to get emails from people originally from here who were living in the United States, who were in this field and said they might actually get a chance to come home. There are also the expats that we have spread throughout Canada alone, let alone everywhere else, who would like to come home.

What I would say, to echo my colleague, is that delay here now will be a delay in opportunity. It will be a delay in investment, and the capital will go elsewhere.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I just have a couple of seconds left.

What does it say for the Atlantic Accord that we have a federal party, the Conservative Party, that says it's going to oppose legislation that is going to expand the Atlantic Accord and create jobs in Newfoundland and Labrador and Nova Scotia? What kind of message does that send?

[Andrew Parsons]

I'm going to try my best here to be as diplomatic as possible.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

Don't worry about that. Just speak your heart.

[Andrew Parsons]

What I would say to clew up there is that my only goal is to get what's best for Newfoundland and Labrador. I will do whatever is possible to make sure that happens.

In this case, this requires this bill to move forward as expeditiously as possible.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Thank you, Minister.

We'll move to our second round. We'll start with Mr. Perkins for five minutes.

The floor is yours, sir.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and thank you to the witnesses.

My first question is for Minister Parsons.

My understanding is that in 2015, 1.2 billion dollars' worth of exploration licences were issued in the call in Newfoundland. Pretty much every call since then that Newfoundland has done had exploration licences applied for and given, for considerable money. Then this bill was introduced and for some reason there were none this summer.

I'm just curious. You said that it was to be expected. Was it to be expected because this bill was introduced and you went from every year having exploration licences issued to then having none?

[Andrew Parsons]

I think my take on this would be that, in fact, certainly there were significant monies spent in 2015, 2016 and 2017, but the downward transition actually started happening around 2020. When I came into this role in August 2020, we actually had an industry that was completely shut down due to the global shift in energy due to what was going on with COVID. Thousands of people were out of work, and that, for the first time in some time, introduced an uncertainty here. I think it obviously had a tremendous impact on the companies and the operators themselves.

It's still playing out. In fact, these multi-billion dollar—

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

COVID is to blame for no one bidding in 2023.

[Andrew Parsons]

No. What I was saying is that we have seen that trend.

All I can say is—

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

The trend was COVID. It wasn't a trend in 2023, but I'll move on.

[Andrew Parsons]

If I had a chance to answer—

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

No, it's okay. It's my time. I'm sorry.

Minister Rushton, there's nothing that this bill does that prevents offshore wind from being done now. It just gives process jurisdiction to a board. However, this bill includes the process from the Impact Assessment Act, Bill C-69, as we know. In fact, clauses 61, 62, 169 and 170 are from that.

You're aware, of course, that once that came in, the ability to get projects approved dropped considerably. When we look at, for example, the Tilt Cove exploration drilling project in Newfoundland, we see that it's been five years going through this process. As for the Cape Ray gold and silver mine, it's been eight years. For the iron ore project in Newfoundland, it's been 11 years. For the Fifteen Mile Stream gold project, it's been six years. It goes on and on. In Nova Scotia, for the Beaver Dam gold mine project, it's been nine years.

You believe that you need to have this in place—I think it's five megawatts—before 2030. When or if this bill passes through Parliament, how is it possible, given how slow this process is—six to eight years so far, and with no end in sight for those IAA projects in Atlantic Canada—that you think this can come online?

[Tory Rushton]

I guess what I would say to you is that we agree with the amendments to Bill C-49. We worked very hard. It was co-created with both provincial and federal counterparts, with both departments working very steadfastly on this.

We have a board that we want as the regulatory regime for offshore wind and that we have total faith in. We believe that things can coexist on a waterway—from this board and its decisions.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Minister Rushton, that's a general answer. I was asking specifically about the IAA process and saying that it can't get done in the five to six years that you have left to get to 80% renewable. We have this IAA process, and the Nova Scotia government has been curious as to why we have problems with this. We support offshore wind; we don't support the IAA process, which has killed every resource and energy project in this country. Now the Liberals are imposing it on the ocean in Atlantic Canada, so you can expect the same result, not a different result, on the amount of time it takes to get through.

Do you believe that this can also be done without increasing the cost to ratepayers?

[Tory Rushton]

What I'd say back to that is that I did say that this coexisted. Decisions made for the offshore wind are recommendations from the board. They have to be decisions that are communicated between both ministers.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

That's through the IAA process, but my question was about the ratepayers.

[Tory Rushton]

I already answered you on that. We believe in the amendments to this bill. We believe—

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

Without government subsidies, current offshore wind is 15 cents per kilowatt.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Mr. Perkins, I'm sorry. I'm going to have to interrupt here.

We have our honourable ministers online. You asked the question, but I'd like the minister to also be able to provide an answer.

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

I would, but I'd appreciate an answer and not just a general statement.

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

Well, I want to make sure. The minister was in mid-sentence, trying to provide an answer, so if you could allow him—

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

He wasn't. He was—

[The Chair, Liberal, George Chahal]

I paused the clock, but I would like to have the minister be able to provide an answer to your question, because, earlier on, Minister Parsons was also interrupted mid-sentence. If we could please allow our witnesses to be succinct but able to provide their answers—

[Rick Perkins, Conservative, South Shore—St. Margarets, NS]

We have limited time, so I want crisp answers.