Natural Resources Committee on Feb. 28th, 2022

[James Maloney, Liberal, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

I agree with that, Mr. Chair. It may be sooner, but I don't want to create an artificial deadline, and then somebody says they're not complying. We all want the information.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Mr. McLean, please go ahead.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

Mr. Chair, I would extend it to the finished goods produced with Russian commodities, which find their way directly into Canada thereafter, such as oil and gas supplied to west coast American refineries, where the finished product ends up in Canada.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Mr. Angus, go ahead.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I don't know now what I'm dealing with. If the question was about Russian oil and gas exports to Canada, I'm in agreement. If we're going to go further and ask for all of this, that and the other, I'm not necessarily keen on that, because that's going to take more time.

I'm very keen on a hard date. I want to know.... If we're dealing with the crisis that we're dealing with, and there is reason for us to make a statement on this, then the sooner we know, the better. I'm not all that keen on adding a whole bunch of other stuff, because that puts the date back, possibly, and puts more work on us.

I think we have a nice, simple message. I would like to go with that, and I'd like it to say we should have it by next Monday, if possible. We understand if the Library of Parliament can't, but I imagine they can get us that information.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

I would suggest that Mr. Maguire give us his motion and we look at it. If there are any amendments, we can entertain those at that point.

Mr. Maguire, we'll put it to you.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

I move that the committee request that the Natural Resources department provide our natural resources committee with facts on imports and exports of natural resources from Russia and Ukraine and from Canada to Russia and Ukraine by our March 7 meeting.

I could add “if possible”.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Just to clarify, with “and Ukraine”, are you looking for “from Russia” or “Russia and Ukraine”?

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

I said “Russia and Ukraine”.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

Okay.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

It's “from Russia and Ukraine and from Canada to Russia and Ukraine”.

I can add "if possible" at the end of it.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

That's the motion.

Please go ahead, Mr. Maloney.

[James Maloney, Liberal, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

I don't want to get too hung up on this deadline idea. Keep in mind there is no meeting on March 7 and we're not actually going to be meeting for a few weeks now.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

We can take out the word “meeting”.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

We have Mr. Angus, Mr. Simard and Ms. Dabrusin.

[Charlie Angus, NDP, Timmins—James Bay, ON]

I thought we were looking at oil and gas, because this is what we're studying in the committee. I'm not sure about all natural resources, because I don't know...manganese.... There may be a whole bunch of stuff, but that might take more effort. I wanted a nice, clean hit here.

I'm not arguing. I just don't know what other commodities we trade with in Russia and Ukraine. There may be multiple issues, but certainly oil and gas. That's what's been raised, so that was what I was focused on.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

I have Mr. Simard, Ms. Dabrusin and Mr. McLean.

[Mario Simard, Bloc, Jonquière, QC]

I'm not sure whether someone mentioned this already, but I think we need a longer reference period. To draw a decent comparison and get a more meaningful picture, I think we need to look at oil and gas imports from Russia and Ukraine over a period of 15 years or so. I think we need a slightly longer reference period, so something like 15 years might do the trick.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Ms. Dabrusin, please go ahead.

[Julie Dabrusin, Liberal, Toronto—Danforth, ON]

I will complicate and simplify at the same time.

I agree with the time frame idea. I also agree with Mr. Angus, though, about just keeping it to oil and gas. If you're trying to get this information within a week, it will be more complicated if you draw it across anything and everything that counts as a natural resource from Canada.

I will suggest that we add one more country to that list, which would be Belarus.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Okay.

Mr. McLean, and then we're going to have to sort out the initial motion and amendments.

[Greg McLean, Conservative, Calgary Centre, AB]

To my colleagues, oil and gas isn't the only resource that is going through the roof right now as far as commodity pricing goes. There are a number of resources that we need to make sure we're cognizant of, especially if we're considering any kind of sanctions against Russia. We need to have that fully on our table both from an import and export perspective.

I assure my colleagues these numbers are readily available. All we have to do is ask for them from the Department of Foreign Affairs. They will be available very quickly on both a volume basis and a dollars basis.

I don't disagree with the period of time, although I think the most relevant period of time is the most recent past. The last year, I think, would probably be the one we should look at the most.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Mr. Maguire, I'm going to put it to you, based on the discussion, to give us your final version of the motion, which we will look at to have any amendments put forward. Hopefully we can wind this up quickly during this meeting so we can get into the subcommittee meeting.

[Larry Maguire, Conservative, Brandon—Souris, MB]

I only mentioned natural resources in the bigger picture because I was most interested in looking at what happens in world trade beyond the oil and gas industry here. My thoughts were to include mining and forestry. Those would be the only three that we would look at. I think they are the major ones. There might be ones that my colleagues have mentioned, trace minerals and those sorts of things. I'm not sure how impactful that would be for us. I think those three major ones that we deal with in this committee the most would be the ones I would suggest we ask for that information.

I agree it is readily available. It could be done by tomorrow if we demanded it, but we're not going to demand it. That would be why I left that motion pretty much the way I have it.

[The Chair, Liberal, John Aldag]

Based on that discussion, are we willing to accept the motion as Mr. Maguire has put forward?