Evidence of meeting #33 for Natural Resources in the 45th Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was biofuels.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

Members speaking

Before the committee

Nankivell  President and Chief Executive Officer, Export Development Canada
Cooper  President and Chief Executive Officer, LNG Canada
Ghatala  President, Advanced Biofuels Canada
Noorani  Vice President of Policy, Canadian Renewable Energy Association
Renou  President and Chief Executive Officer, FPInnovations

11 a.m.

Liberal

The Chair Liberal Terry Duguid

Welcome, colleagues. Let me call this meeting to order.

I will start, as we always do, by acknowledging that we are meeting on the unceded territory of the Algonquin Anishinabe nation.

Welcome to meeting number 33 of the House of Commons Standing Committee on Natural Resources. Today's meeting is taking place in hybrid format.

Let me make the following points.

Before speaking, please wait until I recognize you. For those participating by video conference, click on the microphone icon to activate your mic, and please mute yourself when you are not speaking. For those on Zoom, at the bottom of your screen, you can select the appropriate channel for interpretation—floor, English or French. For those in the room, you can use the earpiece and select the desired channel. I remind you that all comments should be addressed through the chair.

Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2) and the motion adopted on Thursday, September 18, 2025, the committee shall resume its study of Canadian energy exports.

On your behalf, I'd like to welcome our witnesses.

From Export Development Canada, we have Alison Nankivell, president and chief executive officer, and Guillermo Freire, senior vice-president, mid-market group. From LNG Canada, we have Chris Cooper, president and chief executive officer. He is here virtually.

All virtual witnesses today—we have some on the next panel—have been given their mandatory onboarding test, and they have passed with flying colours.

Our presenters will now have five minutes each for their opening remarks, after which we will open the floor to questions and comments from members of Parliament.

Ms. Nankivell, you have the floor for five minutes.

Alison Nankivell President and Chief Executive Officer, Export Development Canada

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Mr. Chair, members of the committee, thank you for inviting me to appear before you today.

I am accompanied by Guillermo Freire, senior vice president of the Mid Market Group. We are pleased to contribute to your study on Canadian energy exports and to discuss Export Development Canada’s support for this sector.

For those who are less familiar with us, I will explain our mandate.

We are part of Canada’s international trade ecosystem. We support and develop Canadian exports. We do this through simple solutions, such as insurance, direct loans or working capital. These solutions help companies mitigate risks associated with, for example, a new buyer, holding more international contracts or operating a foreign subsidiary.

We have one of the largest structured project finance teams in the country, which enables us to support domestic and international projects, and we offer that share of our trade knowledge and connections to companies we work with. We help to grow that knowledge through the presence we have in markets, both across the country and around the globe. We operate on commercial terms, which ensures that our work complements that of the private commercial banks and private insurers. Consistent with this model, EDC does not provide grants or subsidies.

Since our inception more than 80 years ago, we've supported resource-based sectors that have long underpinned the Canadian economy. We recognize that energy, in particular, is a critical driver of our nation's wealth and prosperity, and that our support for the sector filters down to a robust ecosystem, which includes R and D, engineering services, advanced manufacturing and clean technologies.

In this moment of global uncertainty and shifting trade dynamics, we'll need to draw on the sector's strength to help build Canadian resilience, competitiveness and economic security. In 2025 alone, EDC facilitated $18 billion of exports, foreign investment and trade development activity in the energy and energy transition sectors. Over the last five years, we've facilitated $77 billion in business. These numbers encompass support for both conventional and clean energy sources and the value chains that bolster them.

Given the strong global imperative for energy security that exists today and the opportunity this has created, we are focused on supporting Canada's industry in its entirety. On the conventional energy side, we provided $2 billion in financing to the oil and gas sector in 2025, which represents a 73% increase over our 2024 levels. Support for this sector accounted for 7% of our overall business portfolio, with the recent increase supporting and reflecting some higher value transactions and a rise in global risk conditions for Canadian companies.

Looking forward, we expect that our engagement with the oil and gas sector will continue to increase as EDC is called upon to support energy security around the globe. We're working with the Major Projects Office, for example, on some of the nation-building infrastructure projects that it has chosen to advance.

On the clean energy side, in 2025 we provided $1.4 billion in financing to the renewables sector as part of our focus on supporting the global energy transition. In recent years, we've expanded our support in this space to include industries of strategic importance, like nuclear technologies and carbon capture, utilization and storage. While the pathway to a low-carbon economy continues to evolve, we remain committed to strengthening the competitiveness of Canadian exporters and the technologies that will enable this shift.

Thank you for giving me the time to provide you with some information on Export Development Canada, or EDC.

I would be happy to provide more information to the committee on what EDC is doing in the energy sector. This work helps Canada be more resilient, competitive and secure.

The Chair Liberal Terry Duguid

Thank you, Ms. Nankivell.

We're now going to Mr. Cooper for five minutes.

Chris Cooper President and Chief Executive Officer, LNG Canada

Thank you. Good morning.

Mr. Chair and honourable members of the committee, on behalf of LNG Canada, thank you for the opportunity to provide input to your study on Canadian energy exports.

LNG Canada phase one provides a practical example for the issues you're considering, so please allow me to summarize across five areas.

The first point is that Canadian energy exports matter at home.

Canada has world-scale resources, a skilled workforce and communities that can benefit from responsible resource development and long-term prosperity, including through hundreds of thousands of direct and indirect jobs, durable careers in resource-dependent regions, indigenous economic participation and revenue sharing, and public revenues that fund essential services at all levels of government.

Natural gas, and LNG in particular, can expand Canada's reach beyond existing markets to global customers and increase the value of our resources while, critically, diversifying trade. Phase one shows that Canadian energy exports can be competitive, responsible and aligned with public expectations.

The second area is Canada's role in global energy supply and what it takes to build export capacity.

The global energy system is transitioning, but demand for reliable, responsible and affordable energy will remain. Canadian LNG can help meet that demand by supporting stable energy markets, helping customers to diversify away from higher-risk or higher-emitting sources and providing energy governed by Canada's environmental, labour and indigenous rights frameworks. LNG projects do depend on long-term planning, regulatory certainty and major investment across the value chain. Phase one shows that Canada can permit, finance and build this complex export infrastructure when conditions allow.

The third area is energy security in a more volatile world, and this is the case for phase two.

This discussion is happening amid heightened geopolitical risk, supply chain disruption and growing competition for secure and reliable energy. Countries that import LNG are prioritizing reliability of supply, political stability of suppliers and clear environmental and governance standards. As a democratic, rules-based country with vast resources, Canada can support global energy security in ways that align with partners' values. Our exports are governed by predictable regulation, enforceable contracts, strong labour protections and respect for indigenous rights. LNG helps manage volatility by providing flexibility and diversification, especially in the Indo-Pacific, where demand is growing and energy security concerns are acute. Canadian LNG can help reduce dependence on less secure suppliers, and in many cases can enable a shift away from higher-emitting fuels.

For Canada, contributing to energy security abroad supports economic security at home—jobs, investment, public revenues and stronger trade relationships. That context underscores the strategic significance of expanding export capacity, including LNG Canada phase two, which is currently under consideration by LNG Canada's joint venture participants. Phase two would increase Canada's LNG export capacity, using proven designs and established supply chains, while minimizing incremental impacts by building on what is already in place.

For Canada, this is not only commercial. It's a strategic choice about whether global demand is met by Canadian energy or by others, whether Canada captures the jobs and investment benefits of its resources and whether Canada remains relevant in an increasingly competitive global energy landscape.

The fourth area is the barriers that could hold Canada back.

Despite our advantages, Canada does have barriers to developing and exporting energy, including regulatory complexity and unpredictability; approval timelines that are long, relative to global competitors; infrastructure constraints; and policy uncertainty that deters long-term investment.

Major projects are planned over decades. Policy stability, regulatory efficiency and clarity on national energy objectives are critical to competitiveness. Phase one succeeded because governments, regulators, indigenous partners and investors aligned on both the importance of the project and the process to deliver it.

The fifth point is on how we do this. It is through indigenous partnerships and responsible development. How development proceeds matters as much as whether it proceeds.

LNG Canada's model includes indigenous nations as partners from the outset, including benefits agreements and equity participation, long-term revenue sharing, employment and skills development, and ongoing collaboration across the value chain. These partnerships represent durable economic participation and a meaningful contribution to reconciliation. Phase two would build on these relationships, expand benefits and maintain the same commitment to consultation and collaboration.

In closing, Canadian energy exports matter to workers, communities, indigenous nations and Canada's place in the world—now more than ever. Phase one demonstrates what is possible when responsible development, indigenous partnership and global market access align. The question raised by our proposed phase two expansion is whether Canada will fully realize its resource value in a rapidly evolving global energy system.

Thank you for the opportunity to appear today. I welcome your questions.

The Chair Liberal Terry Duguid

Thank you to our witnesses for those presentations.

We're now going to go to questions and comments. We will start with Ms. Stubbs for six minutes.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Shannon Stubbs Conservative Lakeland, AB

Thank you, Chair.

Thank you to all the witnesses for being here.

Mr. Cooper, I wonder if you could make some comments on the fact that since 2015, when the Liberals came to power, they have approved only four of the 18 LNG projects proposed in Canada. Of course, only the one for which Conservatives enabled the federal-provincial joint review, which was LNG Canada phase one, is being constructed. In that same time frame, the U.S. approved 26. Sixteen are built and operating, and the U.S. is now the world's lead LNG exporter, while Mexico is now poised to pass Canada, all in that same timeline.

In general, as a proponent that is almost there, could you comment on why Canada is so far behind in exporting the LNG that the world wants and needs, particularly after your comments on timely approvals, clarity and certainty in policy, and regulatory conditions for investors and proponents?

11:10 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, LNG Canada

Chris Cooper

First of all, I think LNG Canada phase one, as I've said, is a good example of how to get it right. It's taken time and effort—that's for sure.

Indeed, what we see in places like the U.S. is a massive growth in LNG compared to other jurisdictions. We end up now in a position where about 60% of the LNG in the world comes from three locations—Australia, Qatar and the U.S.—and I believe that Canada could actually play a part.

With phase two, we could actually add the Cedar and Woodfibre volumes and become a top five exporting nation. I think Canada can put itself on the map in terms of scale and be one of the top five contributors.

In terms of what we need from government and what helps progress those projects, I think the most important factors are policy certainty, regulatory predictability and then competitive fiscal frameworks. They're recognized at scale in global competitiveness of LNG. It's about positioning yourself on the cost curve. I think that's what's needed in terms of making these big investments go forward and attracting international foreign investment to make these big investments work. It's really about the alignment of those interests, and then perhaps some streamlining in the consultation and the processes. It's probably a simplification of the processes, rather than a removal of the processes.

Everybody else has processes. Ours just seem to be a little bit more complex. I think what happened on phase one is that people aligned on the objective, and then they worked through the process.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Shannon Stubbs Conservative Lakeland, AB

Thank you.

It seems clear that the federal government should move urgently to repeal or reform all the anti-development laws, policies and regulations that they list on the back of Bill C-5, which they clearly indicate block building and stall proponents from getting major nation-building projects done. Otherwise, they wouldn't have needed to pass Bill C-5 and the MPO. They should actually just fix the regulatory processes and make the permitting processes competitive with the world, and especially with our biggest competitors and hostile regimes.

You mentioned that you're waiting to make that final investment decision for phase two. To the extent that you can, could you advise what is holding LNG Canada back from making that final investment decision?

11:15 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, LNG Canada

Chris Cooper

Sure, and indeed it's to the extent that I can.

I would say that it is just more process. While we might point to processes in Canada, the investors also have processes. I would say that the support we've had through LNG Canada phase two being named as a nation-building project and the support that we've had from the MPO in helping us coordinate and drive forward specific things that we needed assistance and alignment on are all falling into place. Now we start to move into a phase where we need the joint venture participants—the investors—to actually do their internal processes. We're going through that at the moment. Obviously, there are a million questions from five different JVPs. That's the process we're going through now.

It's a nation-building project with MPO support. Now it's about investor alignment and going through those final steps of approvals, which also takes time.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Shannon Stubbs Conservative Lakeland, AB

Thank you, Mr. Cooper.

Since Conservatives have consistently supported the idea of Canada aggressively pursuing the expansion of natural gas development at home and the exporting of LNG, we want to see the government create the conditions for LNG Canada to get quickly to a final investment decision.

Since you mentioned the assistance and coordination of the MPO, maybe you could enlighten committee members about that. Also, can you confirm whether a national security review has been done by the MPO since the referral, given that PetroChina has a 15% interest in LNG Canada?

Conservatives support accelerating the development and exporting of LNG, but we also support Canadian manufacturing and Canadian job creation. Can you let us know the status of that review?

11:15 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, LNG Canada

Chris Cooper

In terms of the MPO's role, obviously it's the primary vehicle in terms of enabling the nation-building project objectives. It's very supportive in that regard. It's been, I would say, very accessible and very aligned in terms of understanding the needs of industry. It's been a bit of a translator in terms of government and country need, and trying to balance that with investor need. It's been very good at that.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Shannon Stubbs Conservative Lakeland, AB

Mr. Cooper, how about that national security review that the MPO is apparently responsible for?

Again, we understand the cost pressures and challenges for Canadian manufacturers, but Conservatives would prefer manufacturing supplies, components and jobs to come from Canadian supply, from Canadians for Canadians.

Given that during phase one of LNG Canada, the company outsourced the fabrication of 35 modules to China and that after LNG phase two was referred to the MPO, the lead contractor was already proposing fabrication yards in China, can you give Canadians any assurance about the national security review that the MPO is tasked with performing on everything needed to accelerate the final investment decision on LNG Canada?

The Chair Liberal Terry Duguid

Thank you.

That's the time for this round, Mr. Cooper. Perhaps you could come back to that question with another speaker.

We're going on to Mr. Guay for six minutes.

Claude Guay Liberal LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC

Thank you very much to the witnesses for being with us this morning. I appreciate it.

Ms. Nankivell, what kind of signals are you getting from different regions of the world regarding Canadian energy or demand for Canadian energy?

Can you shed some light on the interest of various regions internationally in Canadian energy?

11:20 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Export Development Canada

Alison Nankivell

I think it's quite remarkable. I don't think Canada has seen a moment like we see now in terms of the interest in what Canada has to offer across a number of sectors, particularly in natural resources and the oil and gas sector.

In our own dealings as an export credit agency, we have 26 offices abroad. We're in constant dialogue, both with our colleagues and with international corporates out of Asia and Europe. In fact, I just came off a panel talking with the German ambassador, and I would say that I see an extraordinary range of interest in Canada's natural gas.

I know from my recent discussion with the German ambassador that there is a lot of interest from German corporates in engaging as more of a coalition to think about the options for moving natural gas up through Churchill and potentially having an option that way too. I believe there are discussions going on with the Manitoba government on that opportunity, although they don't include EDC.

As I said, we have a fairly significant presence in Asia in the discussions with Japan and Korea. Obviously, there have also been others outside of our realm with other countries as well, but those are the main ones where we've seen significant interest.

I would say that this is important to us, because those are countries where we want to see collaboration on a much deeper level, not just about purchase offtake. Often their export credit agencies come in and invest alongside EDC in financing the build-out of those projects. As well, often some of those international corporates are co-investors in the project, alongside Canadian investors.

That is a discussion we have under way in some of the discussions we have more broadly with international groups with whom we're working on a number of files. Of course, the main negotiations aren't done with us—they are done with Natural Resources Canada—but from the point of view of how the financing can come together, we are very much involved in working with those respective nations' credit agencies.

Claude Guay Liberal LaSalle—Émard—Verdun, QC

Speaking of how the financing comes together, Mr. Cooper talked about the private sector. He talked about his project and how the next step for LNG Canada is that private investors also need to follow their own processes, but I'm also interested in the role of EDC.

You talked about some foreign countries having similar organizations. How do you work jointly with the private sector, and how is EDC's role helping the private sector coalesce or participate in these energy export projects?

11:20 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Export Development Canada

Alison Nankivell

First of all, we have a 30-year history of financing these types of projects. As I said, we have the largest project finance team in the country. Anything with respect to these types of greenfield projects in general is done with export credit agencies, often working alongside the private sector. When a sponsor or a group of sponsors gets to the point where they have sufficient equity and they're looking to how to make sure they can execute and go forward, generally they come to Export Development Canada to explore what the financing package could look like.

As part of that discussion, we start to take on our initial due diligence, with our project finance team leading. We look at whether there is sufficient balance between equity and debt. Is there the offtake that we're looking for? There's a whole feasibility due diligence that's undertaken for market feasibility and offtake.

I might let my colleague Guillermo speak a little bit to this, because he has had extensive experience in project financing, both before and mid-market.

That is a dialogue that often starts about a year in advance, before we even get to the point of having financing, to say what needs to be there in terms of offtake and whether there are sufficient investors around the table. Who is interested in coming and partnering alongside us?

Generally speaking, when it is in our country, there's an expectation that EDC would lead that financing. Because we're so well respected globally for our ability to lead and co-lead syndications of project finance like this, there's a lot of willingness to partner with us.

I might turn to Guillermo in case he would want to add something here.

The Chair Liberal Terry Duguid

Unfortunately, our time is up for this round. You can hold that thought and come back to it, perhaps, with another speaker.

Mr. Simard, you have the floor for six minutes.

Mario Simard Bloc Jonquière, QC

Thank you very much.

Ms. Nankivell, can you provide the committee with a breakdown, by province and by energy sector, of EDC's investments? This could take the form of a list of what you are investing in Quebec, Alberta, British Columbia and so on.

I would like to better understand what clean energy means to you.

I am saying this because, when I look at documents from your organization, I see figures that reinforce the impression many people have that, since the changes made by the Harper government, EDC has been used to finance the oil and gas sector. In one of your reports, I see that, in 2023, $7.3 billion was provided to support the oil and gas industry and, in 2022, it was $9.3 billion.

Earlier, you talked about the investments you made in 2025. I heard the figure of $2 billion, and you said it was an increase. So perhaps it was an increase compared to the reference year—namely, 2024—but, in the past, some truly astronomical sums have been invested in the oil and gas sector.

11:25 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Export Development Canada

Alison Nankivell

Maybe I'll start by explaining. When I referenced the $2 billion, that was for financing. When we referenced $9.3 billion, that was our support across a number of products, and a significant part of that is insurance. When we have Canadian oil and gas companies looking for protection against nonpayment, we would include in that business contract bonding.

The other thing that I think is really important to understand is that our support is for the whole value chain. When you look at EDC's business, most of its support outside of large projects it might be participating in is in the midstream—companies that are in oil and gas services, equipment companies, engineering companies and technology companies.

Mario Simard Bloc Jonquière, QC

That is still a significant advantage given to the industry. I'm telling you this because I'm curious to know what your investments in the energy sector in Quebec are.

Last week, representatives from Hydro‑Québec, who may never have made any requests to you, came to say that the two major energy export projects they have in the United States, the one to New York and the one to Massachusetts, haven't received a single penny from the federal government.

However, when I look at the major energy projects in the west, which are oil-related, I see many forms of financial support—you've broken them down—coming from EDC. I find this quite contradictory, and I'll explain why.

The four biggest players in the oil and gas sector are 60% owned by U.S. investors. During the reference period, from 2021 to 2024, they raked in $131 billion in profits. From this $131 billion in profits, record dividends of nearly $80 billion were sent to American investors.

I find it hard to understand why these people aren't reinvesting in their facilities and supporting the oil and gas sector supply chain, and why EDC needs to do that, when these investors are making record profits. I find this dynamic hard to understand, which is why I'm interested in seeing a breakdown of your investments by province—to see if there is glaring inequity—and, above all, by energy sector.

I also see in some of your reports that you've supported clean technologies for the oil and gas sector to the tune of $102 million in 2023 and $464 million in 2022.

When you provide a breakdown, do you include that in clean energy investments or investments in the oil and gas sector?

I think it would be important for the committee to have that type of information to understand the situation.

11:30 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Export Development Canada

Alison Nankivell

We can certainly come back to you with the distribution. Actually, I would tell you that our distribution of support across the country is relatively even. I would certainly point to the fact that we're actually one of the largest financiers of clean tech in Canada. That will continue to grow alongside any support we do.

Mario Simard Bloc Jonquière, QC

What do you mean by “clean technologies”?

Are these carbon capture and storage technologies for the oil and gas sector?

Or are they rather technologies related to clean energy, such as wind, solar and hydroelectric power?

11:30 a.m.

President and Chief Executive Officer, Export Development Canada

Alison Nankivell

It includes all of those areas of renewables related to alternatives to traditional energy on the energy management side of technology. It also relates to areas to do with clean technology related to water. It goes across. Our definition is quite broad.

Mario Simard Bloc Jonquière, QC

I'll ask you a question that may seem trivial.

In your opinion, are gas and oil extracted using carbon capture and storage technology considered clean energy?