Evidence of meeting #6 for Subcommittee on Neurological Disease in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was done.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joy Smith
Good morning, ladies and gentleman. We're so pleased to have you here today.
I'm sorry we had to change rooms from one level to the other, and it took a little while for everybody to get here and get settled this morning, but we certainly do welcome you on this very important study today.
We have some very astute guests on this particular topic.
Dr. Duncan.
Liberal
Kirsty Duncan Liberal Etobicoke North, ON
We have the opportunity of hearing from Dr. Zamboni and Dr. Simka on June 15. They're not available--
Conservative
Liberal
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joy Smith
I'll try to see what the time is. Our witnesses are very important. We will have business time, and you will have time to do that. I'll try to give seven to ten minutes, depending.
Our witnesses today are very important to hear from, Dr. Duncan.
Pursuant to Standing Order 108(2), this is a study on neurological disorders.
We have, from Detroit, Ewart Mark Haacke, director of the MRI Institute for Biomedical Research, McMaster University.
Dr. Haacke, is it?
Dr. Ewart Mark Haacke Director, MRI Institute for Biomedical Research, McMaster University
Yes, it's Dr. Haacke. I am here. Can you hear me okay?
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joy Smith
We can hear you very well. Welcome to our committee.
We also have, as an individual, Dr. Sandy McDonald.
Dr. McDonald, welcome back. I'm so glad you could come. I understand you have a powerpoint presentation for us today.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joy Smith
Very nice, thank you.
Dr. McDonald is a medical doctor in this field.
We have Lianne Webb, and we have Steve Garvie as well. Welcome.
We will begin with five-minute presentations first of all, and I'll extend that a bit to make sure you get everything in that you need to say.
We'll start with Dr. Haacke, please.
Director, MRI Institute for Biomedical Research, McMaster University
Good morning, and thank you very much for the opportunity to speak with the committee today.
I'm speaking to you today not just as an MR scientist, but also as the founding president of the International Society of Neurovascular Disease, which is in the formation process at the moment. The goal of this society is to promote the research and treatment of chronic cerebro-spinal venous insufficiency.
For the last four years I have been proposing that MS is related to the small veins in the brain, and I was invited by Paolo Zamboni to present my independent work at his workshop in Bologna last September. Since Zamboni first presented the CCSVI hypothesis, more than 1,000 people have been imaged and more than 500 MS patients have been operated on.
Many of these people show no obvious effects from the surgery, but many people do. Some of them recover their energy, their continence, and their motor capabilities. These are by themselves impressive. The question is how many cases are enough to draw the attention of this issue to the professional societies, such as the neurologists, the Canadian government, and other places?
The wait-and-see attitude of the neurological community, in my opinion, is simply wrong. The evidence for venous vascular abnormalities in MS patients is now overwhelming. The main goal at this time is not whether we should get funding to continue to pursue investigation of this point, but rather that we need funding to sub-categorize the different sources of CCSVI, as shown in part on the five slides I sent to Dr. McDonald. I hope he has received those.
To design a double-blinded study, we need to know how to classify these lesions before we can understand why some people might recover better from surgery than others. To get this information we must collect data in hundreds, if not thousands, of cases. Patients need to know the lesion content, iron content, and the vascular status in their brain, neck, and spine before they have their surgery in order to monitor how things change after their surgery.
The questions of the highest import are whether the patient stabilizes or not, whether the patient gets better, and whether the lesions and abnormalities tend to subside.
If it's possible to show the few slides I have, this would be an appropriate moment to do so. If that's not possible, I will just continue.
Is Sandy McDonald able to show those slides?
Conservative
Director, MRI Institute for Biomedical Research, McMaster University
All right, so I will leave that for him to show later.
So again, the question is how many is enough? The answer depends critically on the question. If there are ten sources--
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joy Smith
Excuse me, Doctor, can I just say something for a moment? Sorry.
I've just been informed that the text is not bilingual, so you're going to have to read all of it into the record. Okay?
Director, MRI Institute for Biomedical Research, McMaster University
That's okay. I am reading it verbatim here, directly from the text.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joy Smith
Thank you. I just wanted to make sure you had everything on record.
Excuse me, Doctor. I have to interrupt you, because one of the committee members is raising his hand. I know it's hard when you're on video conference. If you'll just bear with me, I have to recognize Mr. Malo.
Bloc
Luc Malo Bloc Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC
Madam Chair, I am very sorry for the witness. But the rules of procedure are clear. The documents presented to the committee must be in French and English. If that's not the case, I ask that you do not present them at all, as per the routine motions adopted by the committee.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joy Smith
Unfortunately, Doctor, because of the rules of procedure in committee, everything does have to be bilingually presented. That's why at the beginning I asked you to read everything into the record. Mr. Malo, one of our committee members, has voiced an objection to the presentation being visually in front of us without the French translation.
Is there a way you could show the pictures as you read everything without showing the text, Doctor?
Director, MRI Institute for Biomedical Research, McMaster University
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Joy Smith
That is bilingual, so that's okay. As long as it's bilingual, we can see it.
So continue.
Bloc
Luc Malo Bloc Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC
Madam Chair, I am just telling you that it is not bilingual. I would like to remind you that some colleagues from your party have already filed a number of complaints when some of my colleagues accepted this type of presentation in English only. I would just like it to be clear that witnesses must present bilingual documents.
Director, MRI Institute for Biomedical Research, McMaster University
Thank you.
I'm sorry. If my French were a little better I would try to read this in French for you.
Bloc
Luc Malo Bloc Verchères—Les Patriotes, QC
That's not what I am asking. You can speak in the language of your choice. Routine motions simply state that all documents that are presented to the committee must be in both official languages. I am very sorry about this complication. Given that the clerk does a very professional job, she certainly advised you of the procedure when the committee contacted you. I am sorry about that, but these are the routine motions adopted by the committee.