Official Languages Committee on Oct. 19th, 2006

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Is that so?

[The Chair, Conservative, Guy Lauzon]

It is up already. Five minutes go by fast when you are having fun.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I think your batteries are over charged.

[The Chair, Conservative, Guy Lauzon]

The thing is that Mr. Murphy is in a rush to ask his question.

You have five minutes, Mr. Murphy.

[Brian Murphy, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

Thank you.

I'm not out. I do not understand the word "hâte", but it means something different from the English word "out".

I apologize for missing part of the testimony, but the main question is this: Are some people healthier than others? As I understand it, we do not know for sure. We do not have accurate data from surveys or studies for New Brunswick, my province.

My concern, of course, is my own region. If we agree that it is very important to improve the quality of health care services for francophone minorities in New Brunswick, and perhaps for the whole country, is it very important to determine whether the quality of services for the francophone minority in New Brunswick is the same as that for the anglophone majority? Do you deal with this in your research?

[Louise Bouchard]

I think we have to work to achieve equal access to services for both sociolinguistic communities. So I'm trying to understand what the situation is in each province. Each have slightly different regionalization models and different resources available, but there is no doubt that we must try to understand and document these facts.

If a hospital is closed down and services are regionalized, will the sociolinguistic communities be further ahead or further behind? That is a very important question. So we have to look at it closely.

The first studies done in New Brunswick clearly showed a health differential between the official language communities. However, it is also true that the socioeconomic situation is also very important. Poverty has a very negative impact on health, regardless which language a person speaks.

What I understand from New Brunswick is that there are regional boards that provide services in French, but that the problem of small communities spread around more anglophone regions has not been solved. Apparently there are some important challenges regarding these groups in particular.

[Brian Murphy, Liberal, Moncton—Riverview—Dieppe, NB]

I know this is a problem for the people from the other ridings, but I am from Moncton, from the centre of the Acadian region. I can say that because the other New Brunswickers are not here.

So we do have a problem at the moment: Where will the new cardiac catheterization laboratory be located? In Moncton, of course, because it would be the second one in the province. The first is located in Saint John, in the heart of the English-speaking part of New Brunswick. We are sure that the second will be located in Moncton, but where exactly? Will it be at the regional Georges-L.-Dumont Hospital or at the Moncton Hospital, which provides many bilingual services? If both institutions were equally acceptable, would it be reasonable to choose the francophone hospital for the reason we are discussing here?

[Louise Bouchard]

I would be inclined to say yes, but I will ask Ms. Robert to answer the question.

[Nicole Robert]

I think it is very important for francophones, whether they live in Ontario or in New Brunswick, to be able to speak their language when they are ill. That is what they want, but in many cases, if they are offered service in English rather than French, they immediately go along with this.

In my opinion, the active offer of service is one of the best solutions for our francophones. People need to speak to them in French, and they must know that the service is just as good in French as in English. If people speak to them in English, they reply in English, because they are bilingual. I think that is a mistake. However, if someone speaks to them in French, if it is clearly indicated the service is available in French, francophones opt for service in French. That was the objective of the designations program in Ontario, particularly in the Ottawa region.

I chair the committee that studies the designation plans. I therefore meet with organizations that want to indicate that they offer services in French. When there is an active offer of service, francophones use the services in French, but they must be made aware that the service is available in French.

[The Chair, Conservative, Guy Lauzon]

Thank you, Mr. Robert and Mr. Murphy.

We will now go to Ms. Boucher.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you for appearing before us today. I am learning a lot about the services available to minority communities.

Ms. Bouchard, you said earlier that the francophone minorities were aging. I'd like to know more about the pilot project on the health care needs of the senior francophone minority community. Unless I'm mistaken, the fact this is a pilot project suggests that the expectations are somewhat limited. Please tell us what approach of this type could demonstrate.

[Louise Bouchard]

Allow me to make a clarification. Ann Leis, my colleague from Saskatchewan, and myself received a grant from the Canadian Institutes of Health Research, the CIHR, to set up a network of researchers across Canada. We received a $150,000-grant spread out over five years, which is not a huge amount when one thinks about it. We decided to try and develop research for our most vulnerable linguistic communities, for seniors and young people. Our goal is to eventually set up research projects to monitor the situation of the elderly living in a minority setting.

Unfortunately, I do not have specific data to present to you today. What our group can do, is fund small pilot projects which could be substantially funded at a later date. Indeed, it is obvious that we cannot restrict ourselves to pilot projects when doing research.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

This research could perhaps be used to create an interactive health atlas. You mentioned this earlier. Can you talk to us about the usefulness of such an atlas and who would be able to use it.

[Louise Bouchard]

I have been mulling over this project for a long time. I simply do not have the funds necessary to carry it out. The Public Health Bureau of Montreal developed an absolutely wonderful tool for researchers and decision-makers. The tool makes interactive health data accessible, when there is data. Therefore, we must have access to census data and administrative data on health. We must also have results on studies carried out on the population and make sure that those particular data are incorporated properly.

You, members of Parliament, may be wondering what is the situation of francophones. With this project, it is possible to obtain administrative health data. For example, in the footsteps of the Public Health Bureau of Montreal, we can understand how people interface with health care services, and how often. This tool is not costly, but money is needed to get it up and running. To obtain additional funding, we have to compete for financing, which is very difficult and competitive. The success rate is not higher than 20 per cent. To obtain funding, researchers must have a very solid reputation.

That is why I am an advocate of a national research institute on sociolinguistic communities living in a minority setting, and research on health. The institute would provide bona fide data on all of these needs and make the useful tools accessible.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

We are talking about minorities. Their health is of importance to us.

Are francophones in poorer shape? Are we more prone to illness? Is it because of societal behaviour, when one is living in a minority setting? Does the same apply for the anglophone minority in Quebec? I'm not talking about anglophones in Montreal but smaller anglophone communities living in other regions of Quebec.

Are francophone minorities' behaviour very different?

[Louise Bouchard]

It ties in closely to living conditions. Living in a remote minority setting means having less access to resources. Living in regions where the economy is depressed puts people in a very much less favourable condition.

One important concept in health care could perhaps be explored. I'm referring to the concept of linguistic insecurity. This does not necessarily translate into morbidity, but pose an identity dilemma for certain individuals.

I would like to explore this issue with young people. For example, does linguistic insecurity bear any relation to high-risk health-related behaviour, etc?

In my opinion, many problems must be documented.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you very much, Ms. Bouchard.

[The Chair, Conservative, Guy Lauzon]

Thank you, Ms. Bouchard and Ms. Boucher.

We have a special guest at this committee, Mr. Tilson, the chair of another committee, who has a very brief question—apparently a thirty-second question and a thirty-second reply.

The reason we're doing this so quickly is we do have some future business to discuss.

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

It's a pleasure that you're going to give me thirty seconds, Mr. Chairman. I appreciate that.

[Some hon. members]

Oh, oh!

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

About a year and a half ago, I had an opportunity to be part of a delegation to the Council of Europe. While there, I met a doctor from France. Of course, in Europe there are no boundaries. There's French, English, German, and Spanish. He is French; that's it. Somehow we communicated with my lack of French, but we did talk about it.

He said that because of the linguistic problems in France, routine examinations were less frequent. Therefore, this would be a problem with determining detections of illnesses and conditions.

So now in Canada we have francophone, anglophone, and...multi-languages in Montreal, Toronto, and Vancouver. This doesn't apply to French-English.

So my question to you, Professor Bouchard, is whether you have looked at this topic in your research. If you have, is it possible to assess the effect of this problem on the linguistic minority situation of French and English?

[Louise Bouchard]

I will respond in French.

Of course, immigrants living in Canada would have to choose to speak one of the two official languages. We know that—

[David Tilson, Conservative, Dufferin—Caledon, ON]

If I could interrupt, forget that—just French and English. Just zero in on French minorities in English communities and English minorities in French communities. Forget the other part.

[Louise Bouchard]

Fine.

My work has shown that living in a minority situation, whether it be anglophone or francophone, seems to have a negative effect on an individual's perceived health status. It goes beyond one's financial situation, level of education or sex; there is something else at play. Also, it seems more prevalent among men than women, according to our analysis model.

That is what I have accomplished to date. It is essential that we continue to explore this phenomenon so as to better understand it. With that in mind, it is important to include the networks so that we can determine what is happening in the field and find the best way to plan services to face this situation.

[The Chair, Conservative, Guy Lauzon]

Thank you very much, Ms. Bouchard.

And thank you very much, Mr. Tilson.

Unfortunately, we have to move on to another subject. I would like to thank our guests. I would ask committee members to remain seated because we have a few more matters to deal with; it should take about 10 minutes.

Thank you to our guests.

There are two things that we must discuss. First, upcoming business. Minister Solberg will attend our meeting next Tuesday, October 24; he will be here for one hour, from 10:00 to 11:00 a.m. We will hear a witness at 9:00, who will speak to us about health care issues. The minister will be here from 10:00 to 11:00 a.m. on the 24^th.

On October 26 and 31, we will also hear witnesses on health care. Minister Cannon will appear on November 2^nd, he will be here for two hours. We will be travelling on November 6.

We will hear witnesses on health care and immigration on December 14. Ministers Oda, Verner and Clement will be appearing subject to availability.

Mr. Godin, you have the floor.