Official Languages Committee on Oct. 26th, 2006

[Vivian Barbot, Bloc, Papineau, QC]

Does the shortage take into account the fact that Francophones outside Montreal, outside the large centres, also have difficulty accessing some services? In other words, there is a lack of services, and I imagine that Anglophones have even more difficulty than others accessing these services.

[Marcel Nouvet]

We’re talking about the difficulty they’re having obtaining services in their language. The language issue is important. I think they are able to obtain as many services as Francophones, but not in their mother tongue. And, when they go to see a doctor or nurse, I think that they would develop greater trust if they could speak in their language.

[Vivian Barbot, Bloc, Papineau, QC]

Yes.

And what do you think about the CLSCs and Info-Santé; which are the least reliable sources?

[Roger Farley, Executive Director, Official Language Community Development Bureau, Intergovernmental Affairs Directorate, Health Canada]

In fact, the observations on this page come from the community itself. They are from the polls conducted on the members in 2001. It is based on these observations that the programs were implemented and that funding was provided. I think we should really refer to the 2001 report produced by the community itself to know where the information comes from.

With regards to access to health care within the Anglophone population, I can provide you with a recent example. The Heritage College in the Outaouais trains nurses who can practice their profession in English. Yet, about 80 per cent of the nurses leave the Outaouais and go to Ontario or elsewhere in the country to practice. One reason they leave is because they don’t feel adequately equipped to offer services in both official languages. So, as part of the program instituted in collaboration with McGill University, these students will receive training in their second language adapted to the health environment in French. As such, they will be in a better position to serve the Anglophone population. This measure is designed to retain professionals in Quebec.

McGill University also has language training projects aimed at Francophone professionals, which will help them acquire a certain level of English medical vocabulary in highly specific fields. For example, when someone is suffering or is in pain, they would know the appropriate vocabulary to correctly interpret the person’s reactions. This is funding allocated to the benefit of the Anglophone population.

[Le président, Conservative, Guy Lauzon]

Thank you Mr. Farley and Ms. Barbot. Mr. Godin will ask the next question.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you Mr. Chairman.

Good morning.

I am having difficulty understanding something. On pages 11 and 12 of the French version, there is a discussion of the results to date. Could someone provide greater explanation on what agencies are being referred to here? I can read under the section on Strategies for Training and Skill Retention in English-Speaking Minority Communities that McGill University is a leading organization working with 76 regional social service and health agencies across Quebec. From what I understand, there are only 70 Francophone projects across Canada.

Under the section Primary Health Care Initiatives, 2003-2004 to 2005-2006 it says that in Canada there are 70 Francophone projects that receive funding, including the national promotion project Active Offer of Health Services in French; the oncology tele-health project in New Brunswick; and the Francophone project on cardiovascular risks in Eastern Ontario. There are 37 Anglophone projects in Quebec as well.

So, while there are 70 Francophone projects across Canada, there are 37 Anglophone projects in one province alone, ie, Quebec. I know that Quebec occupies a large territory, maybe even larger than France, but when all of this is analyzed, can we not conclude that there is an issue of imbalance at some level? I am not saying that there are too many projects in Quebec, but rather, I am asking whether there are enough in the rest of Canada.

I can’t speak about the numbers involved, because I risk making a mistake. But I can state more or less that the waiting list is longer in Quebec than in the rest of Canada. In New Brunswick, for example, according to the information we got last night, there is a 31-week waiting period.

Does the 31-week waiting period apply to Francophones in majority Francophone communities? It was only there, in New Brunswick, that there were cuts to their hospital budgets. At the same time they were making these cuts and closing Francophone hospitals, they were building Anglophone hospitals in the south of the province.

According to New Brunswick statistics, were the Francophones affected by this? I would like to hear your comments.

[Marcel Nouvet]

The federal government does not have jurisdiction over hospitals, including their construction, openings and closures. This is rather a provincial matter.

Thus, the initiative put into place does not take this issue into account. First and foremost, the initiative aims to create networks that will let us bring to the table provincial representatives, health professionals, institutions and communities, so that they can decide together how they can best improve the health services offered to the people.

They do not discuss hospital openings in these networks.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I understand. I have been around for a long time, and I know that the health system is under provincial jurisdiction.

However, we are talking about the federal government financing 76 health agencies for English-language minority communities in Quebec, while in the rest of the country, outside Quebec, there are only 70 Francophone projects being funded. This is in contrast to the 37 Anglophone projects financed in the province of Quebec alone.

Even if you are paying for the agencies to meet at the same table, is this working outside the province of Quebec? Are there enough agencies? What is the problem?

[Marcel Nouvet]

We have provided money to the community agencies. They are the ones that do the screening and decide on which projects to sponsor. We are not the ones who decide which projects to sponsor; the communities arrange this themselves.

In Quebec, for example, when you consider what is being done in the area of training, it is much less costly than what is being done by the Francophones through the consortium. Because in the consortium, it’s about training people, taking the students and giving them two or three years of courses. And in some cases, for physicians for example, there is a lot more training than that. So the training is a lot more expensive than it is in Quebec, where the stress is put on language training, which costs a lot less and can be provided a lot more quickly.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

But in terms of training, however, aren’t Francophones at a disadvantage when they pursue their studies, especially when the textbooks are nearly all in English?

So, as a government, what are you doing to encourage the translation of some of the textbooks? Even in Montreal, I know some people took who courses and had to go to McGill University to consult the English textbooks because there was absolutely nothing in French.

[Marcel Nouvet]

Yes, but the courses are not given at McGill University.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

No, I’m not talking about McGill. I’m talking specifically about the health care textbooks available in the university library.

[Marcel Nouvet]

But the courses given at the 10 participating universities and colleges are in French. On the other hand, I don’t know whether the books are in English or French, but as far as I know they are in French.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Now, coming back to an earlier issue, why are there only 70 Francophone projects in the whole of Canada, when there are 37 Anglophone projects in one province alone, ie, Quebec?

[Marcel Nouvet]

I think we should ask Société Santé en français who selected the projects. How were the choices made? We should also compare the value of the Anglophone projects to that of the Francophone projects because in my opinion, some projects are much larger in scale than others.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Is it possible to attribute this situation to a lack of federal funding in some regions? In other words, can a lack of funding explain this disparity?

[Marcel Nouvet]

No, because on average, Francophones still receive twice as much funding as Anglophones to finance their activities and initiatives.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Yes. But this is a matter of 10 provinces as compared to only one.

[Marcel Nouvet]

We are talking about a million minority Anglophones in Quebec and a million minority Francophones living outside Quebec. Yet, despite this, the decision was made to grant two-thirds of the money to Francophones and one third to Anglophones. Therefore, the problems among the Francophones were acknowledged as different and possibly more severe.

[Le président, Conservative, Guy Lauzon]

Thank you Mr. Nouvet. This is all very interesting.

Mr. Pierre Lemieux, it is your turn to ask the next question.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Good morning and thank you for coming here today to make a presentation.

To begin with, I would like to say that access to health care is one of our government’s priorities. This is a very important issue for minority language communities. The vitality of minority communities depends on access to health care in their mother tongue, as you know. It is a key factor.

During your presentation you said that some funds are allocated for primary healthcare needs, while other funds go towards networking initiatives. We have already spoken briefly on the topic of networking. I note that there are 17 Francophone health networks outside Quebec, one Anglophone provincial health network in Quebec, and nine other regional and local networks covering the province.

Can you explain to us more specifically the concept of networking. What are the goals, strategies? And what are the expected outcomes?

[Marcel Nouvet]

In my opinion, networking is the cornerstone of this strategy. It allows the communities to bring to the table not only the health professionals from their regions, but professionals from the provinces and territories as well. The dialogue provides an environment in which confidence can be quickly developed, one that would not exist otherwise. It allows the parties to define their priorities. The federal government is not alone in investing in government services in French. The provinces and territories are doing this as well, and their investments are significant.

We have created a place for discussion where people can meet, talk with one another and see different points of view. Considering its federal-provincial-territorial baggage, it would have been very difficult for the federal government to sit down at the table with provincial and territorial civil servants and tell them that a little money was available and that they had to decide jointly how to spend it. It is better when the provinces interact directly with the communities, without interference from the federal government. The role of the federal government has been to make this small investment, which has resulted in a number of positive outcomes.

A study carried out by the Francophone advisory committee will be published in the near future. The study shows that in Nova Scotia, New Brunswick, Prince Edward Island, Ontario, Manitoba, British Colombia and the Yukon, the relationships between the provinces, territories and communities are now rated as good or very good.

When people listen to and understand each other, they always manage to find solutions. The federal government is also investing in training. An example of this is the French courses being offered to the people of New Brunswick. Thanks to this initiative, the provincial government and the University of Moncton have decided to build a centre to deliver this training with their own money. The cost has nearly reached $3 million. This ongoing dialogue between the provinces and the communities is helping to form partnerships. This could not have been achieved by public servants.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

As for me, I love the fact that we’re working together. We are interested in health matters, like the provinces, but we need communities to deliver the services.

In your opinion, is it possible to assess or assign worth to the networks? What sort of feedback are you getting from the communities?

[Marcel Nouvet]

In the beginning, this networking initiative caused a lot of suspicion among the provinces and territories. Of course, the provinces’ fear was that the federal government would spend a little money, then withdraw and forget about the project completely. When this happens, the provinces find themselves having to deal with the high expectations of the communities.

The list that I have before me shows that at least half of the provinces and territories see this as a positive initiative. In Manitoba, for example, the cabinet adopted a ruling indicating that it wanted the people to consult the local community network before doing anything affecting the administration of health care to Francophones.

I think the networks are exciting. They have brought the communities and provinces closer together. I attended a provincial-federal conference two years ago. The provincial and territorial MPs talked to the Health Department very positively about the work that is being accomplished thanks to these investments. It is clear that everything that is being achieved is being done with the support of the provinces. Because of the networks, the provinces now have the confidence that they will be able to greatly improve their health care services. Next year’s evaluation will provide more proof that this is happening.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Thank you.