Official Languages Committee on Nov. 23rd, 2006

[Graham Fraser]

Greeting services are important. Greetings must be made in both official languages, because this is a right of the travelling public and it is very important.

[The Chair, Conservative, Guy Lauzon]

Before asking Mr. Godin to ask his question, I must point out that the people from Air Canada appeared in camera. We should not be discussing matters that occurred in camera. Thank you.

Mr. Godin.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

On a point of order when will the in camera restriction be lifted?

[The Chair, Conservative, Guy Lauzon]

Tomorrow. Air Canada requested that the in camera restriction be kept until tomorrow.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

All right, thank you.

[The Clerk of the Committee, Ms. Danielle Bélisle]

You have to pass a motion to have this in camera restriction lifted.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

All right, that is what I wanted to know. Thank you. Now we can begin.

First of all, I would like to welcome you. I hope that I did not cause some confusion at the start by my point of order. I am confused and I believe that some of my colleagues are as well.

I will explain what happened. The minister's report states that he will be sending the bill to committee. I am not interested in reviewing a report saying that the minister will send us a bill. If he sends us a bill, I will want to study the bill. That is why I am confused.

Perhaps not everyone is confused, but I must admit that I am. Indeed, we are discussing a bill now, and that does not bother me. However, the bill hasn't been sent to us yet, and we are not authorized to discuss it until it has gone through second reading. The bill has not yet been sent to the committee. I hate having to use my seven minutes to explain all of this to the audience and to the committee, but I find this unfortunate.

Let's go back to Air Canada Jazz. Yes, it's true. The problem with Air Canada Jazz is that, when Air Canada purchased this company, which used to be called Air Nova, it withdrew from certain regions in Canada and stopped serving locations such as Moncton. Now it has to be fully responsible for the region.

In my opinion, it would be unfortunate if the language of work were not included in the legislation, or if the equitable participation of francophones and anglophones were not included either, or the development of official language communities. It is important that the legislation reflect all of that. Air Canada cannot use the back door to do something that it is not allowed to do through the front door.

[Graham Fraser]

That is a point that I was trying to explain in my presentation. Indeed, it is troubling when, in such cases of property transfers, employees who continue going to the same place of work, continue to do what they used to do, who play exactly the same role, suddenly, because of such a transaction, lose their language rights.

Given that we have oversight responsibilities because of Air Canada's history, it is vital that we ensure the protection of these rights.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Yes, exactly. Otherwise, we are opening the door for Air Canada—should it experience any problems in a given location, it could change the company name or purchase a company in this location, withdraw and leave it up to the company to do the work, so that it would no longer be obliged to respect official languages. That is why I told you that it is using the back door to do what it cannot do through the front door. We must protect these rights.

Furthermore, there is the online service. It doesn't make sense that we can purchase a ticket at the counter, where service is provided in both languages, as provided for by law, and that the service is not provided in both official languages if we use the online service. Once again, the company is using the back door to get what it cannot get through the front door. The company is taking advantage of new technology to do this, and that is totally unacceptable.

Let's look at Aeroplan, for instance. Excuse me, Aeroplan is not used to travel with WestJet, it's for travelling with Air Canada!

Thank you for giving this example of the $25-premium. That is exactly what is happening: people who want to be served in their language will have to pay, and those who want to get faster service will simply have to press on the button to get what they want.

[Graham Fraser]

You are raising quite an important point that warrants further explanation.

Commissioner Adam has written reports on the use of French over the Internet. That made me think. Indeed, to a certain extent, online services constitute a very good opportunity for francophones in Canada to have access to information in their language. Often, these are opportunities for francophones in minority situations to have access to distance learning, obtain services, gain additional access that they don't necessarily have in their remote communities. So Internet expands access.

If we were to provide an exemption for online services, it would be paradoxical. In my opinion, that would limit the opportunities for minority communities, rather than develop them, because, as far as these communities are concerned, Internet represents a very powerful instrument.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

You were telling us, Mr. Fraser—and you're the one saying this, not me—that it is Aeroplan, Air Canada Vacations and Air Canada online services. Where should they be?

[Graham Fraser]

I do not want to say too much about the limitations. I will ask Ms. Tremblay to provide a little bit of explanation regarding the limitations.

[Johane Tremblay, Director, Legal Affairs Branch, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages]

As far as Aeroplan and Air Canada Vacations are concerned, Parliament's jurisdiction regarding the application of the Official Languages Act of Canada does pose a problem. Because of their activities, these companies fall more under provincial jurisdiction, and that creates a limitation that needs to be taken into account. With respect to Air Canada's online services, the Office of the Commissioner is of the opinion that legislating on official languages falls under parliamentary jurisdiction. However, for the other two entities—

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

But my question—

[The Chair, Conservative, Guy Lauzon]

It's already finished.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I must be working in metric. It goes fast.

[The Chair, Conservative, Guy Lauzon]

Mr. Lemieux will ask the next question.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Good morning, and thank you for your second appearance here before our committee.

During your first appearance before us, you stated that your role was part cheerleader, part nag. I think that you can play a positive role in the case of Air Canada.

Can you explain your strategy to be a cheerleader in promoting official languages at Air Canada?

[Graham Fraser]

That's a very good question. I must say that I've been on this job for five weeks and I'm still in learning mode. I don't have as specific an answer as I would have liked to have given you on this particular issue, but I think that it is important to establish positive links, to explore how a company like Air Canada can play a role and how we can create a new positive relationship.

Indeed, there are certain gestures being made by Air Canada. I pointed to the role of enRoute magazine, which as I said, rigorously respects linguistic duality. There is also the greeting of passengers, which is a very important issue. I will ask Renald Dussault to add his comments.

[Renald Dussault, Assistant Commissioner, Compliance Assurance Branch, Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages]

I'd simply like to add that over the years, and certainly more recently, we've established many working relationships with Air Canada with a view to resolving complaints. For example, we've met regularly with vice-presidents of Air Canada to determine how we could work together to solve complaints and at the same time help them improve the quality of service.

The commissioner will probably want to establish these types of relationships himself. I simply wanted to say that there is already a working relationship between the Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages and the people from Air Canada with a view to helping them on this issue.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

You talked about complaints. A company has to have goals, and time and effort are needed to achieve those goals.

The number of complaints is no longer as important a criterion for evaluation as it used to be. There will always be exceptions. Anywhere you go, you always find exceptions to the rule. I'd like to know what your specific criteria are to evaluate progress at Air Canada. Complaints are one way to evaluate progress, but not the only one. I'd like to know what your other criteria are.

[Graham Fraser]

At the Office of the Commissioner of Official Languages, employees use Air Canada and travel a lot. We've asked all the employees, during their travel, to do a personal evaluation. It's not a matter of acting as investigators but just as ordinary travellers.

I really can't tell you the results of this evaluation. However, I can tell you that the evaluation of the quality of greeting and services in both official languages can be done in a more official way or in a more familiar way. We use several methods, including a more familiar approach.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

It's always easy to point out deficiencies, but it's more difficult to assess progress and determine in what sectors that progress occurs. Complaints are one tool, but you said there were others. Therefore, you've made the criterion less specific. That's why I'd like to know—

[Graham Fraser]

Mr. Dussault has just explained that we established a working relationship with Air Canada to discuss these issues. There is the official evaluation of complaints, and, as I've just said, a less official evaluation when employees travel by Air Canada. I think that this is in a way a holistic approach that enables us to assess the linguistic environment for the travelling public.

[Renald Dussault]

The observations that the commissioner is referring to are of course based on a number of criteria. We verify the reaction of the company and its employees in terms of an active offer of services and other factors of that nature.

We reported the results of our observations to company representatives. We meet with them systematically. Last time was last June. We discussed the preliminary report on our observations. We told them that our observations seem to indicate that Air Canada had lost some ground during its restructuring period. We are in a position to discuss exactly that type of issue with Air Canada.