Official Languages Committee on Jan. 30th, 2007

[Léopold Provencher]

A wonderful research paper was done on the issue. We believe that, in a minority community, the rules are not the same as they are in a majority community. We need to put together many development factors. Uniting the family, the community and the school is a winning strategy. There is abundant research to show that this is the case and it is a good approach. We bear this in mind when we think about a school community centre.

[The Chair, Conservative, Guy Lauzon]

Thank you, Mr. Provencher.

It is now Mr. Harvey's turn to ask a question.

[Luc Harvey, Conservative, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Ms. St-Laurent, I would like to know whether or not the hospitals have what they need. With respect to the current hospital labour plans, whether they be anglophone, Indian or francophone, have the needs been met? In other words, do we have all of the resources that are required?

[Sandra St-Laurent]

The last time I met with the individuals in charge of human resources at the hospital, I was told that 40% of the nurses were going to retire over the next three years. Considering that we do not train any nurses there, recruiting is a tremendous challenge for us. We are still looking.

[Luc Harvey, Conservative, Louis-Hébert, QC]

If I understand correctly, this 40% figure applies to all employees, regardless of language. That is fine.

A little earlier, it was said that francophones have full employment. We therefore have to attract other francophones to your region. That is the big difficulty.

I would like to ask Mr. Jean de Dieu a question. Who amongst you originally comes from the Territories? Indeed, you have all decided to settle there. Could you give us the recipe so that we can attract other francophones to go there? We cannot force people to do this. This is not a concentration camp, it is a life choice that we make. If there are not enough people there, what is the problem? I do not think that that can be resolved through a court challenge.

[Daniel Hubert]

There is only one answer, and it is brief. We have to lobby in French if we want to attract people to a given place. Let me give you an example: the Department of Health has already tried to recruit doctors to serve the francophone community, but in vain. That's because the department's personnel are unilingual anglophones. However, there are job fairs in the area of health care which are organized in French. There are health care conventions. I go and meet people, we exchange cards, I talk about Nunavut, about its problems and major challenges, as well as about the fact that going there is an opportunity to learn about another culture, that life is simpler up there and that it is a different type of professional experience. We exchange business cards. I even got the names of a few nurses. One doctor was interested, but there are administrative rules which govern medical professional associations. That is all. It is just a matter of doing what it takes. Again, the important thing is to have lobbying and recruitment programs, as well as programs which promote health care in French, and to integrate them all.

I would like to make a final point. We might do all that and succeed, but if these new people are not integrated into a service organization which works for the French community, it will all have been in vain. Therefore, from this moment on, we must negotiate with the government to indicate that giving a shift to a French-speaking doctor in a hospital will not get us very far. Francophones rarely go to the hospital, because that is not what they need. What they really need is access to a family physician. That can be done, and we have to negotiate the organization of these services. It is not a question of law, but applying the laws governing health care, in my view. So we need to find out how to organize the services for Canadians by respecting and continually adapting the services to the language spoken by the people, including work schedules, the availability of services, recruitment and retention.

So, on the whole, the point is to convince people to work in a place where it is cold. It is -50^o up there right now. If you come, bring your mitts, but rest assured that you will experience something new and will have a lot of work to do.

[Sandra St-Laurent]

I would like to add that another of our strategies is to increase local capacity in French. We now have a project to support health care professionals which has allowed us to organize workshops on medical jargon with people whose mother tongue is French and who have not spoken French in a long time, or for anglophones whose French is at the advanced intermediate level, to help them answer questions from francophones. We try to empower francophones at the community level by providing professional services.

Further, we are in touch with people from the Réseau de développement économique et d'employabilité, or the RDEE Yukon, and from the tourism sector to organize joint recruiting drives, because they have their own special way of presenting the Yukon.

[Luc Harvey, Conservative, Louis-Hébert, QC]

I have a final, very brief question. Nunavut's territory is 2,093,000 km² and it has a population of 27,000 inhabitants, of which about 6,000 are under the age of 18, and who therefore go to school. How do these kids get to school?

[Léopold Provencher]

I am less familiar with Nunavut. Perhaps you should ask that question of someone else.

[Luc Harvey, Conservative, Louis-Hébert, QC]

I am sorry, the question is for Mr. Hubert.

[Daniel Hubert]

You want to know how the kids get to school?

[Luc Harvey, Conservative, Louis-Hébert, QC]

How do you manage this, given the size of the territory and the low population density?

[Daniel Hubert]

As far as the francophone population is concerned, the vast majority of them live in Iqaluit. So there is a school there. Since Iqaluit is no more than five kilometres long, that would be easy to organize.

There are also francophones in other Nunavut communities, such as Pangnirtung and Kimmirut, for instance, but these are tiny places with only a few people. During the last general assembly a few weeks ago, there was discussion about a project with the French school board of Nunavut to provide services online, to provide Internet base training, including for young people, as a complement to the education which francophone parents would like to maintain, even though they live in a community which is 99.9% anglophone.

[The Chair, Conservative, Guy Lauzon]

Thank you, Mr. Hubert and Mr. Harvey.

Mr. Godin will ask the final question.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Earlier, you said that you faced challenges, but that you also achieved some good things. We know that good things have been done. The problem lies with what has not been achieved. If you write a report for the government saying that it has done a lot of good, you won't get very far. The government will simply rest on its laurels. Indeed, we realize that good things have been accomplished but you yourself have done great things and I want to congratulate you for that. Don't stop.

Further, as far as we are concerned, in our report, we must also address what has not been working. For example, you told us that you have a program, that you sent a letter asking for the program to be renewed, and that you were turned down. We need to know this in order to report it to the House and to help you promote that program. There are good programs in place. For instance, in Sault Ste. Marie, Ontario, people are working to bring all the different organizations under one roof, so that people can meet and realize that there are many programs out there.

I found interesting the fact that in Saint-Boniface, Manitoba, municipal, provincial and federal programs are all under the same roof. People go there and receive all the services they need.

Our responsibility, our mandate, is to report to the House on issues we can improve, or which already work well, and on ways to keep them or further improve them.

People have talked about getting doctors to work in the Far North. As you yourself said, you have to “sell your stuff”: the weather is great, the snow is beautiful, for people who like day light, there is sunshine 24 hours a day, and they can come back when it gets dark again. Are there programs adapted to your particular region, because, after all, it is a particular region, as there are in Northern Ontario and Northern Quebec? The territories represent a particular region. Could the government not provide incentives, that is, financial incentives, to attract doctors? A doctor might leave from Montreal, Moncton, Caraquet or Bathurst, and move to the Far North, on the condition that the doctor could practice the same type of medicine he or she would elsewhere. If the government acknowledged the problem and wanted to do something about it... There are young doctors finishing medical school who would like to experience the Far North, and they would be happy to do so because they would also receive a bonus. Do you have any suggestions for what we could include in our report?

[Daniel Hubert]

The Société Santé en français is working on the entire human resource issue and looking for ways to facilitate the mobility of personnel in the health sector. The work is underway and you will certainly be receiving recommendations on the subject. Yes, this is a possible option. At first sight, I do not think that it is merely a question of money—I am giving you my personal opinion, because you requested it. The mobility of personnel must be facilitated, and there are some bureaucratic barriers to remove so that these people can work in the community as a French speaking team. This is the real issue. You know what happens in places—

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

However, if we could recruit people from other provinces and bring them to the territories, let us say for two months, and if they could go home for a few weeks... If we could do this in the diamond and gold mining sectors, could we not do the same in the health sector?

[Daniel Hubert]

Yes, we could do it. Quebec uses Nunavik, the northern—

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I am talking about mobility.

[Daniel Hubert]

Yes, there are agreements between the Nunavik regional government in Northern Quebec where the Inuit population lives, the Quebec Ministry of Health regarding this type of rotation. The Nunavut Health Department is open to the idea.

However, it will be more costly. The important issue for Iqaluit is the housing shortage. There is a major housing shortage. A one and one-half room apartment costs $1,700. Welcome to the Iqaluit cost of living! Yes, there are differences, and above all, there is a housing shortage. However, if the community comes to an agreement, something can be done about it.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Would the situation call for a special program?

[Daniel Hubert]

Yes, because of the remoteness of the communities, but this problem has nothing to do with critical mass. A population of 1,200 requires a certain amount of health services, school services for families, children, etc.

We must note that there is a critical mass. We hear a great deal about the current environmental issues in the North. However, the social issue for the people is the recognition of the specific needs of all these small remote communities comprising first nations and Inuit communities that need tools and programs.

You did not come to the North. We had hoped that you would come. We made the trip because we had to speak to you. This often happens to our organizations and networks. People travel everywhere in Canada except to the North because they feel that it is too far and too costly for their means. We are always considered as too costly and too remote.

Yes, we must take this factor into account. If you could suggest a strategy for programs in the North, we would be ready, together with all the MPs, to get to work on it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Guy Lauzon]

Thank you, Mr. Hubert and Mr. Godin.

I also want to thank all our witnesses. I think we learned some very interesting facts. The members who want to raise personal questions can stay a bit longer if they have the time.

The meeting is adjourned.