Official Languages Committee on Jan. 30th, 2007

[Daniel Hubert]

I would say two things. People say that they are creatures of the federal government, but if you were to speak to the Inuit community, to the leaders who established Nunavut, who negotiated the agreement over 20 years, they would tell you that perhaps it is their creation as well.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

No, you misunderstood what I was saying. I want to know whether the federal government contributes to the discussions.

[Daniel Hubert]

As you probably know, 93% of the Nunavut government's budget comes from the federal government: that is one basic economic fact. Yes, there is an extremely important and crucial investment made by the federal government, and negotiations are under way at the moment. It would be better to ask the question of the Nunavut government regarding negotiations on fiscal transfers, on a new fiscal arrangement that people have been looking for for years.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Mr. Provencher, can parents enrol their children in a French-language high school in the Northwest territories? What has been done so far?

[Léopold Provencher]

We have two schools at the moment. There has been one in Yellowknife since 1989, but enrollments have not increased in the last few years because of an inadequate infrastructure—there is no gymnasium and no specialized facilities. This problem should be corrected in 2007 because of a court case, and, if all goes well, in 2008 a gymnasium and other specialized facilities should be built. So we have a high school that is meeting its objective poorly, given that there are 99 students with a potential enrollment of 250. We think there is a problem.

The school in Hay River has been opened for just five or six years, and the high school will take shape gradually. However, the school will face the same problem—it does not have a gymnasium either. Clearly, there will be a shortage of specialized facilities. The education services are available from kindergarten to grade 12, but they are [inaudible]—

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

It would be a good idea to tell the current conservative government that.

I fought for French schools in Saskatchewan. The Premier at the time, Mr. Romanow, told us—he represented the NDP—that education was in fact an area of provincial jurisdiction, but the federal government had to pick up the tab. And we had to pay for the schools that were taken away from this in 1931; we had to buy them back between 1993 and 1995. It is rather sad. However, it remains that, at the time, it was the only federal government, regardless of political stripe, that agreed to give money to a province to establish French schools, in order to bring them back 64 years later.

DId the federal government say that it was prepared to invest to ensure that students—your children—would have a French-language high school in a so-called bilingual country where French and English are supposed to be equal?

[Léopold Provencher]

Your question is both relevant and important. I would reply that 75% of the budget comes from the federal government. Now we can say that the federal government has definitely invested in education at the primary and secondary levels in recent years. The problem is that it did so at the request of the territorial government. It has adopted a hands off policy, in other way it did not get involved and let everything to the government in place, which is responsible and is supposed to do its job. However, when it does not do its job, and this runs counter to the interest of the linguistic minority, things remain undone and things move forward in ten cent increments, when what we need is several million dollars. That is pretty much the situation.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

As for Saskatchewan, one of the things that had helped at the time—this happened between 1993 and 1995— was the Meech Lake Accord, which gave Franco-Saskatchewans a number of political arguments and, also, a referendum was about to be held in Quebec. Whenever Quebec moves, the federal government takes notice, but it is not necessarily out of respect for the Francophonie in such situations.

Now, you want to implement an extremely important health care project that comes under both federal and provincial jurisdiction. Are the circumstances favourable? Are the planets aligned; can the federal government then push the territories into providing services in French where required?

[The Chair, Conservative, Guy Lauzon]

I would ask you to answer in a word or two.

[Léopold Provencher]

I'll be quick. I think that the federal government has an extremely important role to play in terms of supporting a territorial government, but i would say that it is monitoring or having responsibility, in an almost paternalistic role. “Paternity” may not be the best word. What's the current best word?

[An Hon. Member]

“Parenting”.

[Léopold Provencher]

Parenting. The federal government has to be a good parent to a government that is making small steps forward in health. We have, nonetheless, invested in various services, and the community is happy to have more services in French.

[The Chair, Conservative, Guy Lauzon]

Thank you, Mr. Provencher.

Mr. Godin will ask the next question.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I want to welcome you, and all our guests, during this new 2007 session.

As our colleague from Moncton, Mr. Murphy, said we have just travelled across Canada. These are the final weeks during which we will hear from witnesses before drafting the report.

I just want to make a comment. It's unfortunate to see where things are. There is an unfair fight between francophones and anglophones. Both languages are officially recognized in the Constitution, but not in reality. It is also unfortunate to hear the comment my Bloc Québécois colleague just made, about this taking 68 years, I think—

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

It was 64 years.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

During our tour, francophones told us that the schools that they inherited were facilities that anglophone had shut down. They are currently repairing and renovating them to make them operational again.

It's also unfortunate to hear Mr. Provencher tell us that there are not adequate gymnasiums in the schools. The excuse given by the federal government is that they did not receive an application from the territories and it leads francophones to believe that if they were to challenge this, what they have gained could be withdrawn.

Excuse me, but I must say that you are not barking very loud today. Right now, in New Brunswick, court cases are being prepared concerning the court challenges program. In my opinion, if the francophone minorities of Canada have made gains, it is thanks to the Court Challenges Program. The only reason we might not win is because Quebec is not involved here. Indeed, there are no court challenges in Quebec because of the Quebec Charter. Anglophones cannot use the court challenge process. If Quebec could use it, but didn't win anyway, the Prime Minister of Canada might decide not to touch Quebec once again. With all due respect to Quebeckers, I am stating clearly what I feel. It's totally regrettable and unacceptable.

I find that you are not barking loud enough out in the field. You're loosing your tools. The little you did obtain, you got through the Court Challenges Program. Last night, when I put a question in the House of Commons, I was told they couldn't answer because the matter was before the court. Imagine that!

We are forced to go to court to obtain the right to have a court challenges program in order to defend a minority whose rights have always been trampled and that has to fight hard. There are French schools in Prince Edward Island, in British Columbia, in Saskatchewan, in Manitoba, in Alberta and throughout Ontario, including Sudbury, and if the cause of the Montfort Hospital in Ottawa was won, it was thanks to the court challenges program.

That's the key. If you want to focus on that objectives, I invite you to do so. If you don't, you're going to miss the boat. If you don't mobilize to tell the Harper government that this state of affairs is unacceptable and is a slap in the face to the francophone community, you are going to miss the boat.

Having said that, $700 million were allocated for these programs. How do you see this in the future? How did this help you in your regions? I'm talking about the action plan.

[Léopold Provencher]

That's a question that requires a very detailed answer.

Would you allow me a comment on the first part of what you've just said?

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Yes, comments are always welcome.

[Léopold Provencher]

We started to bark, to use your expression, two years before we decided to go before the courts. We filed over 100 complaints with the language commissioner of the Northwest Territories before we started legal proceedings. At the time the community decided that it was essential that we proceed in this manner.

The community expressed its views through the democratic means that it had at its disposal. It still does so today because as a last resort, the issue had to be settled before the courts. The community therefore undertook proceedings in 1999 and in early 2000. This process is still under way. We've gone before the Supreme Court. We spent nine weeks in front of judges, we put forward our case, that we had prepared adequately, and we explained what did happen. We did demonstrate.

We did bark a bit, and we're not quite finished. The appeal procedure will take place in May.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I just want to clarify one thing. What I mean is that you will no longer be able to bring your cases before the courts now because of the elimination of the Court Challenges Program.

[Léopold Provencher]

That's correct.

We have had several opportunities to make comments, at the interdepartmental level, on the evolution of the Action Plan for Official Languages. We think that a great deal of work has been done to implement the action plan, but we face enormous challenges related to the federal bureaucracy. A number of departments are involved. Harmonization among departments is not always obvious. Much remains to be done on that front.

I think the money has been well invested. However, there isn't enough of it. We were given an 11% readjustment. But we wanted 75%. We had tabled global action and development plans for our communities. They were motivated. What we're missing is the money and the means.

However, steps have been taken in the right direction when it comes to the responsibility required of all officials and community sector people regarding the implementation of action plans to improve services.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Some francophones in my province go to your region to work for four weeks in gold and diamond mines and then come home. They will then leave for approximately two months and come back again.

Are these people factored into studies calculating the number of francophones in the Northwest Territories? They also need services. If they are not being considered, they should be. They practically live in the Northwest Territories more often than they do at home, but they are not residents.

[Daniel Hubert]

Perhaps Sandra could better explain how the agreements between governments work with respect to eligibility rules. Health care cards and the rules to facilitate receiving services are important, given that there are good agreements between the provinces and the territories. It is true that significant population mobility puts pressure on the health care system.

These people often work in the services sector, for instance as taxi drivers or hotel and restaurant employees, in areas where people frequently have small accidents or wounds, like cuts. When a person who doesn't speak English well goes to the hospital with a cut to their finger and the doctor or nurse can't understand them, it's difficult. It is important to obtain services in one's own language. The issue, for a professional, is to be understood.

We are conscious of the fact that part of our community is very well settled. These people have been living here for a long time. In some cases, they know the doctors well. They've established a relationship with a given health care professional. However, not everyone is in that situation. That is why we need to add and create services to meet these needs.

[The Chair, Conservative, Guy Lauzon]

Thank you, Mr. Hubert and Mr. Godin.

The next question will be asked by Ms. Boucher.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Welcome everyone. I am pleased to see some people here today whom I met during our trip.

As you know, we did a tour across Canada. We have listened to communities and have understood their message. The committee in the future will be able to work together to target what has worked and see what has not worked.

I would also like to mention to some people around the table that the federal government is currently working with the Northwest Territories to support the territories with French-language services. This is very important to us. We expect to reach an agreement soon. Actually, negotiations between the Northwest Territories and the federal government are doing very well. In fact they are ongoing.

I do not know whether some people have read this. But last December 2nd the Government of Canada and the Northwest Territories announced an agreement regarding increasing the size of the Alain-St-Cyr school in Yellowknife. That is another step. We want to work with you. For my part, I can say that I am eternally optimistic. I know that when it comes to the Francophonie, we still have a number of challenges to meet. When you do a cross-country tour, you see that things are not always that obvious.

What I would like to know from each of you, in your respective fields, is what you think the main challenges will be for communities over the next ten years. As a government, how could we help you improve the situation and find possible solutions, not on a short-term basis, but rather over the long term? We like to hear your suggestions.