Official Languages Committee on June 20th, 2006

[The Chair, Conservative, Guy Lauzon]

Thank you for your suggestion. Your time is up. We will move on to Ms. Boucher.

[Sylvie Boucher, Conservative, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

There is no doubting the fact that you are looking for money. Budgets have been cut. I understand that you have been negatively affected by the sponsorship scandal. Funding is, of course, important; as a community radio organization, have you found any other way to make the public sit up and take notice?

I am currently touring francophone communities outside Quebec. I have just returned from Newfoundland, where there is a rather exceptional system. I met with a number of people in New Brunswick. Advertising revenue is available from any number of sources. This is something that I understand quite well, because I have community radio stations in my neighbourhood. They are extremely important, they help the entire community.

Apart from providing funding, is there any other way that the government can help you to make yourselves known as francophone community radio stations operating in a minority environment?

[Roger Ouellette]

Well, since you are asking for our opinion, I will take this opportunity to deal with some points that are not in our document. I am afraid that, once again, they deal with money, but that is beside the point.

Not too long ago, we appeared before the CRTC to ask the commission to create a fund for Canadian community radio. Yesterday, we met with the Deputy Minister of Heritage Canada to discuss the request and ask that a committee be struck to examine the issue.

Federal governments in industrialized nations, such as France, Australia, or even the United States, all provide programs to help their community radio organizations. That applies to all G7 countries, except Canada. We think that a fund should be created. When we quoted a figure of $500,000, we were told that our request was too modest, and that the amount would not meet our requirements. So, we thought that an $18-million fund would be a good starting point. Even then, we were told that it was not very much money. Nevertheless, we would like to start with $18 million.

We explained to the CRTC that we wanted part of the funding to come from the profit generated by private radio. During the 1990s, the industry warned that it was on the brink of bankruptcy and was being smothered by regulations. So, a committee was struck, and it recommended that the CRTC loosen up the rules.

And you know how well private radio stations are doing today. This year, their surplus will be in the millions, or even the hundreds of millions. All we are asking for is a meager $5 million — because we are not very greedy — that would go from these huge profits into a fund for Canadian community radio. We would also like to see contributions come from Heritage Canada, as well as from other sources, including foundations.

Community radio stations don't want to be dependent on the federal government. They don't want to survive from month to month on a government handout. That is not the case. They have multiple sources of funding, including bingos, fundraising, community dinners, the sale of local advertising, and federal and provincial government summer employment programs. These funding sources provide community radio stations with the basic resources that they require to fulfill their community development mandate.

When stations are forced to close, or when a crisis becomes permanent, as was the case in Fredericton, what do the volunteers do? They try to save the station. However, while that is happening, the station cannot really serve the community. Therefore, in answer to your question, I would say that it is not only a matter of dollars and cents. Nevertheless, money is sometime the sinews of war.

After all, the federal government invested $138 million in the Canadian television fund, with an aim to produce Canadian programming. We must not forget that community radio stations produce 80,000 hours of Canadian content programming every year. Television has a fund, and that is great, because it allows Canada to affirm its cultural sovereignty and produce Canadian programs.

We believe that community radio is already doing that and deserves a helping hand. Its role is not that of private radio. Our artists complain because private stations only play the top 10 hits. The same selections are played over and over again. Who helps emerging artists to find their way onto the top ten hit list? Community radio stations. They play a key role in the development of our Canadian artists.

Under CRTC regulations, private radio stations must contribute part of their profits to a fund intended to develop Canadian talent. That's wonderful! However, we believe that we also contribute to the development of Canadian talent and that part of the profit should be invested in a fund for community radio. That would be the right thing to do.

I have just given you an overview of the situation. We would very much appreciate your support.

[Serge Paquin]

I would like to provide a few details on our proposal for a community radio fund. We are trying to raise $18 million. This fund would benefit the country's 140 community radio stations, including campus stations, Quebec community radio stations, as well as all of the stations in French and English Canada. We have joined forces in a coalition with the National Campus and Community Radio Association, the Association des radiodiffuseurs communautaires du Québec, and the ARC du Canada, with a name to requesting the funding.

[The Chair, Conservative, Guy Lauzon]

You have 45 seconds remaining, Ms. Boucher.

[Roger Ouellette]

I will forward the documentation on this file.

[Luc Harvey, Conservative, Louis-Hébert, QC]

Does the amount related to advertising depend on the size of the community, or the number of listeners? Is that how you come up with your figures?

[Béatrice Lajoie]

With respect to our advertising budget, the departments must have Treasury Board's approval for the ads that they buy. Departments are often looking for community outreach opportunities to promote Bill S-3. With $500,000, we will be able to help the departments accomplish this task.

[Luc Harvey, Conservative, Louis-Hébert, QC]

That isn't what I was asking. You mentioned 5.4 per cent. Is that figure based on the size of the local population, or on the number of listeners?

[Béatrice Lajoie]

No. A government public service campaign usually last about three weeks and cost around $50,000. We allocate $50,000 per department with a potential of about 10 departments. That is how we proceeded.

[Serge Paquin]

We also used the rate cards, which relates to your question about the audience numbers. The smaller stations have lower rates than the larger ones. The small stations charge a minimum of $15 per 30 seconds while the larger ones can charge up to $40. That is how it works. The rate card is based on the audience rating.

[The Chair, Conservative, Guy Lauzon]

Your time is up, Mr. Harvey. We will begin the second round.

Mr. Rodriguez.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I'd like to come back to the question raised by Mr. Harvey because I am having a hard time understanding. Is the $500,000 a fixed amount, or is it a percentage? Is it an amount that you have established?

[Serge Paquin]

It is what we are suggesting. It is not based on any percentage. If it were divided by 21 community radio stations, each one would receive about $24,000.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

I understand. It seems a little random. There might be other ways to do it.

[Serge Paquin]

Yes. We are working on that now. The calculation is not based on any scientific or statistical method.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

For example, within S-3, could there not be some type of regulation stipulating that 5 per cent of the funds be allocated to community radio every year? That would seem more solid, easier to justify and less random than recurring amounts of $500,000, $600,000 or $300,000. That would represent part of the government's effort to promote community radio.

[Béatrice Lajoie]

We have been asking for a percentage-based formula for seven years now, and for seven years now, we have been given 101 reasons why it would not work. When we ask about the percentage, we are told that we receive more than 5 per cent. The last time, the committee had asked for 5.4 per cent. The request was denied because we apparently were receiving more than that. The response takes into account all of the French-language community radio stations. We are lost in this percentage.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

There could be a regulation within S-3 that would apply specifically to French-language radio stations outside Quebec.

[Béatrice Lajoie]

I agree wholeheartedly.

[Serge Paquin]

If it is easy and provides the same results, then we don't have a problem with it. We are not looking for 5 per cent of $60 million or $70 million of a comprehensive advertising budget, that is not our aim. Whatever the number is, we would agree to having a percentage-based formula.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Year in year out, what percentage of your revenue comes from the private sector as compared to the government contributions?

[Serge Paquin]

About 65 per cent of the radio revenue comes from local advertising, 5 to 10 per cent from national advertising and the rest, about 30 per cent, comes from fundraising. Operations subsidies are practically non-existent. Only one radio station currently benefits from a Canada-Community agreement and receives a given amount. That is the station in Mr. Simard's riding. It is the only station to have access to a government fund under the Canada-Community agreement. That is an exception. None of the other radio stations is subsidized, except for small subsidies granted under the summer employment program.

With respect to the Canada-Community agreements, the community sets the priorities. Other than that, the profile is generally the same: an amount equivalent to 65 per cent of the revenue comes from advertising.

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

Do you also run ads for provincial governments?

[Serge Paquin]

Yes. In some provinces, the amount is much lower, but in Ontario, the percentage is quite high. New Brunswick provides a small amount. That is part of the funding diversification that we spoke of earlier. Without that, community radio stations could not survive.