Official Languages Committee on Nov. 13th, 2007

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

At this stage, I suggest... I haven't finished my list of speakers and there's a motion. I would therefore ask Mr. Lemieux to delay his motion so that we can complete and finish the list of speakers. Do you agree, Mr. Lemieux? Three subjects have been raised right now. I'd like to allow members of the committee to express themselves on all the subjects being discussed. After that, I will be prepared to receive motions, if that is the committee's wish.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

I'm a nice guy. Let's proceed like you've just suggested.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you for your cooperation, Mr. Lemieux.

Let me draw your attention to the fact that right now, there is no meeting anticipated next Thursday and if you want there to be one, we have to plan for one. The exercise we're doing allows us to determine whether that's the case, what the subjects will be and whether the witnesses are available as well. We do have to consider that they too have been given quite a short notice.

Let's continue. I'll give the floor to Mr. Godin.

As long as you don't have any motions on the subjects...

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Mr. Chairman, if you want to start receiving motions, you're going to receive a whole lot of them. That little game can be played both ways.

I'm prepared to support Mr. Bélanger's first proposal, regarding the official languages commissioner. The official languages commissioner has tabled a report, and it's important that he should come to present it to the committee. Since his report is done, perhaps the commissioner will be ready by Thursday. He could appear before us Thursday so that we don't waste any time. There's not much time left.

I also want to propose something important regarding the court challenges. This committee has done a tremendous amount of work. I would have thought that if Mr. Lemieux wanted to submit a proposal, he would have suggested that we finish the work that remains unfinished. But I saw that he didn't make this a priority. It doesn't seem that court challenges are a priority for the Conservatives; but for the Canadian people and for minorities it is one. They lost something major.

You said earlier that we didn't have any other witnesses, Mr. Chairman. I'm sorry — perhaps it's not up to me to apologize but rather up to you — but there are other witnesses. If you remember correctly, if your memory isn't too short, there was a proposal to invite Minister Verner and the former minister of Canadian Heritage, Ms. Oda, to come here and testify. The Conservatives had voted against it, but the motion had passed. Other witnesses are to appear before the committee. That's what would allow us to tie things together and produce a written report.

All the work has been done. We've already met all the witnesses from the public, but there are the government witnesses remaining who must come and explain their actions. That's what the committee had decided. I would like to get the support of the committee. Let us continue the work on court challenges — there mustn't be too many meetings left that can we hold — let us invite the minister and report to the House of Commons. I think that after that, we could study something else, health care, for example.

I'd also like to suggest that we examine National Defence. Last week in the newspapers, there were reports about the way francophones were treated in Borden with regard to language. I think that this merits a study. The situation is urgent. Our soldiers voluntarily give their lives to work for our country. I think it would be worthwhile for our Standing Committee on Official Languages to conduct a study on this.

This is not the first time we talk about National Defence: the lack of respect for official languages continues, on and on and on. I think it would be a good idea that our senior generals come and talk to us about the way they're treating our soldiers in Borden. Perhaps we could even invite soldiers who would come and tell us voluntarily what's going on. That's been in the papers, it's been made public and I can tell you that it looks bad. Somebody is willing to give his life for our country and he can't even be treated better than that! It didn't looked good at all last week.

We have started a new session. We have to invite the commissioner of official languages and we have to finish the work that's been started and the committee has to accept all the work that was done previously so that it's not lost. This is taxpayers' money. Everything is recorded and the clerk has all the information. Let's put all that together and invite Minister Verner and the responsible government officials.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

All right. Thank you, Mr. Godin.

Indeed, I remember that there was a motion to invite the ministers, and that was part of the study that was underway at the time, if memory serves me.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Yes, exactly, on court challenges.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

All right.

Mr. Nadeau.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Good morning, Mr. Chairman.

I have four points that I would like to raise. Let me come back to the issue of meeting the official languages commissioner. In fact, we agree about that.

The work on the Court Challenges Program is far from finished. Before making a final report, must we meet other stakeholders and ministers? Many questions are still left unanswered, and the issues must be explained.

There's also the issue of National Defence and the French language. Let us keep in mind the proposition tabled by Benoît Sauvageau. We are still waiting for the official languages commissioner's answer regarding this. Things are not getting any better. We noted that last week with the National Defence ombudsman for the Canadian Forces, Mr. Côté. The situation is ugly, and some issues need to be raised.

During the last session, the Bloc raised the issue of reviewing the Canada Community Agreements to adjust them to the needs of minority official languages communities, because they currently reflect the situation as it was 10 years ago and not as it is today.

Thus, there are four issues.

I thrust that the clerk as well as yourself are attentively listening to these four points so that they can be raised during the coming meetings.

In the end, it was three to two!

Could you please repeat?

[A Member]

What was the fourth issue?

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Thank you, Pierre. We have the official languages commissioner, a very nice gentleman with a little moustache; the Court Challenges Program or CCP; National Defence, including Borden. Perhaps we could ask Mr. Côté if he is available, as ombudsman, and if he can come and tell us about what is happening at Borden and about what he has heard from Petawawa, among other things. Finally, I suggest that we should review and improve the Canada communities agreements to adjust them to the needs of minority official languages communities.

Those are the four items.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

What was the fourth point again?

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

To review the Canada communities agreements and adjust them to the needs of minority official languages communities.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. Nadeau.

Let me just note that I was a bit distracted while the clerk was telling me that we could invite the official languages commissioner to the next committee meeting, if he is available.

In fact, if the committee wishes, we could ask the commissioner whether he is available for the next meeting and we could also allow some time for discussing current issues and for drawing up a list of witnesses.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

I have a point of order. I think that we must finish the discussion before deciding what to do.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Mr. Lemieux, you have the floor.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

National Defence is indeed an important issue. We had at least one presentation from the Department of National Defence during the first session. The policy at the time had failed, as we know. The commissioner said that. We all know very well that the procedures and programs offered by the Canadian Forces as well as their way of promoting the French language in the armed forces have not worked.

The department just launched a new program; I think that the new approach was implemented last spring. We are at the initial stages of the process. We know that the first attempt did not work.

What I'm saying is that I think defence needs time to implement the new program they were briefing us on when they came before the committee last time.

Perhaps it was during the month of May. It is only a matter of a few months. The new program was just launched. It is too early to discuss the results.

The Court Challenges Program is also an important issue. Our committee did a great deal of work on this issue. I remember that we debated it with every community that we visited during our trip across Canada. We prepared a report with recommendations to the government. We did debate this issue at the time, before tabling our report in the House.

Then, just before summer, a study came out. We debated this at length with the witnesses at the time. Mr. Godin and Mr. Nadeau suggest that we should continue. Let me emphasize that this is an important issue which is currently before the courts. There are also other issues. We must study them. As far as I am concerned, I think that we did a great deal of work on the Court Challenges Program, and there are other, equally important issues.

This is why I suggested a new approach, for determining the important issue for minority official languages communities. There are several important issues at stake.

I like what you said about the priorities for the communities. We live in minority language communities. We would like to know how we can help these communities.

During the first session, we also discussed the issue of the young generation. We have not really begun our work in this regard. We are still discussing the next generation of workers in our communities. It is still a worrisome issue. Immigration could be one solution. Minority language communities are still discussing immigration and various ways of integrating immigrants, especially francophones. The coming generation consists of children and young people. Will they stay in their communities? How can we promote language, etc.? This is another concept. Post-secondary studies for youth is also an issue. During our trip, I learned many things, and heard witnesses who said that the coming generation was very important. We are talking about young people in minority language communities. This topic is my second suggestion.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Are you talking about young people, the coming generation or communities?

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

I am talking about young people in our minority language communities and what the federal government can do to help them in order to promote official languages so that they remain in their communities.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. Lemieux.

We have four speakers on our list: Mr. Bélanger, Mr. Nadeau, Mr. Godin and Mr. Chong.

Let us begin with Mr. Mauril Bélanger.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I would like to request that our clerk provide us with certain documents. In the past, committee members received a copy—a brochure—of the Official Languages Act. Since it was amended in 2005, I think that there should be a new booklet. It may be good to hand copies of it out to members.

The same applies to constitutional legislation. There is a green booklet that contains all the constitution legislation, including the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms, of course, and sections from the British North America Act, where the official languages issue is raised. I think that this would be a very useful working tool and I would suggest that the clerk hand it out.

On the other hand, Mr. Chairman, I alluded earlier to the July 2007 report on health. I do not know whether committee members have received a copy of it, but perhaps it should be circulated once again. I mean the 2007 report and the 2003 report.

Finally, I do not know whether all the committee members have received the most recent annual report from the Official Languages Commissioner. Has our research assistant studied it and if the study has been done could it be handed out to the committee members before the Official Languages Commissioner appears before us? If not, could it be done?

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Mr. Bélanger, we have taken note of your requests for documents. Obviously, if the Official Languages Commissioner is called before the committee, the Parliamentary Information and Research Service will draft, as it usually does, briefing notes that will be distributed to committee members.

Did you have anything to add, Mr. Clerk?

[The Clerk]

No, but I might contact you in order to find out exactly what the requests are.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Fine.

We'll carry on with our list.

Mr. Nadeau, you have the floor.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Mr. Chairman, I just wanted to draw to your attention, and to the committee members' attention, the fact that when Mr. Godin and myself raised the issue of national defence, we were referring to last week's statement by the ombudsman. I was not referring to what happened in the past, when the former Minister of National Defence, Mr. O'Connor, came before the committee to explain the new program that he was interested in establishing.

This is a topical issue. It happened last week. We were referring to the issue raised by the National Defence and Canadian Forces ombudsman, that is the situation of francophone recruits in the Canadian armed forces on the Borden base. This situation must be clarified and it is in that context that we mentioned the Canadian armed forces.

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

We have taken note of that clarification. As you said, you were referring to the ombudsman's statements rather than to the new policy. Is that correct, sir? Fine.