Official Languages Committee on Feb. 12th, 2008

[Edward Poznanski]

Some ambassadors are appointed by the Governor in Council and others come under the Public Service Employment Act. Those appointments have to comply with the same policy regarding official languages as apply in the rest of the public service.

[Raymond Gravel, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

When an ambassador from a foreign country comes to Canada, is he not obliged to speak both languages? I had a similar experience. I was studying in Rome and I met the recently appointed Vatican ambassador to Canada. He didn't speak a word of French. He spoke only Italian and English.

[Donald Lemaire]

That is not under our jurisdiction. I would not know how to answer that question.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. Gravel.

We will continue with Mr. Godin.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

You said you have the power to do an investigation for monitoring purposes. I am going to talk about what Mr. Petit said earlier and what Mr. D'Amours also talked about last week. I was here and I heard him. Spending only two hours an evening to learn another language does not work very well.

What do you think about this? Are we heading in the right direction or are we on the wrong track?

[Donald Lemaire]

Learning a second language calls for a personal commitment, first of all. Someone has to demonstrate a certain desire and determination in order to accomplish it, and management is responsible for providing an environment that supports successful learning. That is in the interests of the organization.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

You aren't being clear. You are talking almost like a politician. When someone works all day and has children at home at night and goes to school to learn another language, do you think that person is in a suitable environment for learning a second language?

[Donald Lemaire]

There are only so many hours in a day and so many activities a person can do.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you.

Figure 5 in your document, entitled "Pass rates on the Writing Test, by level and year", shows the following figures: francophones, 67%; anglophones, 88.4%. The "New Written Expression Test, October 1, 2007 - January 15, 2008" column shows the following figures: francophones, 54.4%; anglophones, 67.1%.

We know that at National Defence the test administered to anglophones may have 30 questions, while the test for francophones has 45 or 48. I don't have the figures in front of me, but I can provide the proof for what I'm saying.

[Henry Edwards]

First I would like to clarify that "French" means "test in French" or "French test". So when it says "French" it is referring to the success rate for anglophones who take the test in French. The figures you are quoting represent the pass rates for the Public Service Commission of Canada with the old test, the test for 2006-2007, and with the new test that was implemented on October 1.

The tests in French administered to anglophones do indeed show a very low pass rate at level C, 33%. However, that figure is based on only 279 cases, while the test is administered nearly 30,000 times a year. We are currently doing a study to determine whether those results can be attributed to the characteristics of this particular group or there are other factors to be taken into account.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Was the test translated, or was it written in the language of the person who takes it?

[Henry Edwards]

The test is not translated. There are two professional teams that write the tests: an anglophone team and a francophone team. Similar methodology was used for writing the two parallel tests. There is no translation, but the equivalency of the English and French tests has been ascertained using statistical methods, so that they both reflect the employer's language standards. The differences must be attributable to the group that was evaluated for those results.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Have the funds spent on the Action Plan helped to bring the two groups closer together, to do studies, to change the tests and the way they are administered, to put more emphasis on bilingualism?

[Donald Lemaire]

We have not received any particular funding for second language evaluation tests under the Action Plan.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

That is just for training. You did not receive it; the department received it, but we don't know whether it did this.

[Donald Lemaire]

We are in the process of updating...

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

You don't know whether it did this. In reality, someone has to volunteer to say it. Is it yes or no?

[Donald Lemaire]

The departments are responsible, in their reports...

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Fine. You, the Commission, that is, don't know whether there have been complaints.

[Donald Lemaire]

In fact they shouldn't be complaining to us.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Previously, when you were responsible, you knew. Since 2006, you don't know, is that correct?

[Donald Lemaire]

We don't know.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. Godin.

That concludes the second time around the table. I am going to allow a question or two before thanking our witnesses and adjourning the meeting.

Mr. Simard, you have the floor.

[Raymond Simard, Liberal, Saint Boniface, MB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. This is a subject that is very dear to my heart, and I appreciate your giving me an opportunity to discuss it. I have just one question to ask.

We hear that there are waiting lists for language training in almost all departments, and that priority for French training is given to managers. Is it true that these waiting lists exist in almost all departments and that people with less seniority are getting frustrated? Is this a situation that you are monitoring?