Official Languages Committee on Feb. 12th, 2008

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Is the employee's bilingualism level assessed on the basis of certain criteria? Is the training site decided by the Public Service Commission? For example, if a person lives in Ottawa or Gatineau, is he or she going to be sent for training in France or England or in Canada, be it in Halifax or somewhere else?

Funding seems to have got a bit skewed, and that could be detrimental, at some point. How does a person have to improve his or her knowledge of the second language? Suppose that someone has the desire to learn, what tools can he or she use to get to the point of meeting the criteria after two years, or after four years if an exclusion order was given?

[Donald Lemaire]

The School of Public Service is responsible for the assessment. Ordinarily, when an employee is to be given language training, he or she must get an assessment to determine the kind of training required and the time it will take. It is then up to the employee's manager to decide what mechanisms will be used to provide the training.

To my knowledge, there is no predetermined criterion for the kind of training and the place or situation where it will be provided. The assessment indicates the number of weeks of training needed to attain the level defined by a particular position, and a training plan is prepared with the employee's manager. That is how it works.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Given the amount of money invested in training for acquiring a second language, what is the success rate after two years? Is there a high failure rate? Are there a lot of exclusions? Do you have these figures?

Your job is to recruit people who are already bilingual whenever possible. We know that this is not entirely the case, but it is the current situation. Is there an adequate understanding of the second language?

[Donald Lemaire]

On the first part of the question, I am not in a position to tell you the success rate for candidates who receive training for the number of weeks allowed for attaining the level required. That is a question of individual performance.

On the question of meeting the two year limit, my colleague can give you figures regarding the exclusion orders granted. There is no follow-up where the person fails. But where the person succeeds, we don't know whether it took eight or 12 weeks, or 14 or 23 months; we don't have that information.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Would it be possible to provide us with that information? The aspect that interests me is the time it takes, particularly whether it goes beyond the two-year period. As long as a person can't function in both languages, someone else is suffering the consequences because that person can't work in his or her own language, as the person is entitled to do. Do you see what I'm saying?

[Donald Lemaire]

We will note the question, Mr. Chair, and we will decide how best to reply to it. Part of the question relates to the school and the success of language training, while the other part relates to exclusion orders.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

The question is how far the elastic stretches.

But it is still you who are responsible for staffing, at the end of the day. The school gives the courses, but the person was recruited by your Commission. It is therefore important to know how much time it takes to attain a passing level. If it isn't working, then tell us and we will try to improve things.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. Nadeau.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

I will now turn the floor over to the New Democratic Party representative, Mr. Godin.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chair, and welcome, everyone.

The Public Service Commission recruits people, is that right?

[Donald Lemaire]

We are the...

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

There are a lot of commissions. I would like to know which commission we are talking about this morning.

[Donald Lemaire]

We are responsible for the Public Service Employment Act. Under the new Act, the power to appoint is delegated to departments, deputy ministers and heads of agencies.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I am going to offer an example to make sure I understand correctly. In Moncton, the Commission recruits people and has them write tests. A list of people is drawn up that is valid for two years. If the federal department in Bathurst wants to staff a position, it draws from that list. Is that about right?

[Donald Lemaire]

The departments are responsible for the recruiting process. We provide them with support for that purpose. The new Act gives them the choice of using the services of the Commission or doing their own recruiting. They may well ask the Commission to help them administer the process, the inventory, and so on. The only requirement that departments must meet is that they post their positions on the "jobs.gc.ca" website of the Public Service Commission of Canada.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

They are no longer required to go through the Commission?

[Donald Lemaire]

No, they are no longer required to do that.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

In that case, who is responsible for checking that the departments are hiring people who meet the language requirements of the positions? Before, was it not the Commission that acted as watchdog for this?

[Donald Lemaire]

We still have responsibility for monitoring and overseeing. We have delegation agreements. My colleague can give you further details about those agreements. Some requirements are imposed in order to keep those agreements in place, and the Commission monitors to determine whether the departments are complying.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

I may not be with it this morning, but I am going to try to think of some examples. Take the example of a new program the government has just set up. Suppose that under this program, people who buy a hybrid car get a $1,500 rebate, sometimes even $2,000. Anglophones, with respect, know that the service is available. So because of the number of calls and the number of employees providing this service, francophones can't get through when they call and so do not have access to the service.

Are you the ones who decide whether there are enough staff to provide the service, or is it the department?

[Donald Lemaire]

It is the departments' responsibility, not ours, to make sure that they are capable of providing the service in both official languages. The Public Service Agency itself is responsible for monitoring to determine the extent to which the departments are in compliance.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Who tells you to do the monitoring? If nobody tells you and you don't receive any complaints, you don't know.

[Donald Lemaire]

Receiving complaints or monitoring the ability of the departments to provide services in both official languages is not the job of the Public Service Commission. It is the responsibility of the Public Service Agency, at Treasury Board.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Has your Commission instituted a process for approaching educational institutions to inform the students that in the next few years the public service is going to have to hire 25,000 people, for example? Do your representatives go into the schools to explain that for jobs designated as bilingual, people have to be bilingual? Are the schools being encouraged, both English and French schools? These young people go to school for 12 years and then spend four years in university. It seems to me that learning a language is doable in 16 years. In their case, the government should not have to pay for them to get training later.