Official Languages Committee on March 11th, 2008

[A voice]

We're off topic.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Mr. Nadeau.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

Can I continue?

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Yes, you can.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

I move that the committee invite Mr. Bernard Lord back to sit before the committee to answer the committee's questions. So there you have it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Mr. Nadeau, since we don't have any current business this morning and since this period has been set aside to listen to a witness, I'm willing to accept your motion, but I'm going to ask you for 48 hours' notice.

We'll take a five-minute break. When we get back, we'll hear from the witness. Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Welcome back, everyone. Without further ado, we'll hear from our witness, Mr. Corbeil.

Mr. Bélanger, on a point of order.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Mr. Chairman, I understand you wanting to listen to the witness, and we have time to do that this morning. However, the logic is flawed. Mr. Lemieux said that we were not entitled to hear from the witness this morning because the proposed schedule has not been agreed to. So, I'm going to propose that—

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Mr. Bélanger, your point of order is denied because the steering committee and the Chairman are within their rights to call witnesses. And the witness is here, so, we'll hear from him. Thank you.

Mr. Corbeil, the floor is yours.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

No, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Mr. Bélanger, we have a witness. I refuse your point of order.

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

Mr. Chair, I'm going to have to appeal your ruling. Unfortunately, you're forcing us into this. We're trying to get through this and get information. You have forbidden the clerk from giving us an answer, after he was attacked by Mr. Petit. So, under the circumstances, I'm going to have to challenge your ruling.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Mr. Bélanger, to begin with, the clerk told me that he cannot comment on business during a public meeting, because this is a matter to be dealt with in camera.

This is the first time this has happened to me. I'm fine with this, Mr. Bélanger, but I don't know how this works. Is this the kind of thing that is going to make us waste time and mean that we won't get to hear from our witness?

[Mauril Bélanger, Liberal, Ottawa—Vanier, ON]

No, Mr. Chair, it isn't.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Since this is the first time this has happened to me, I'm going to call on Graeme to explain the procedure.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

On a point of order, you can only challenge a ruling. There hasn't been a ruling. I didn't hear him say “I rule...”; I didn't hear him say “I give a ruling”. I heard him say that the order of the day was to have Statistics Canada as a witness. We have Statistics Canada as a witness. He is simply proceeding with the order of the day; it's not a ruling, and you can't challenge something that's not a ruling.

Chair, I would say that you're within your rights. We have a witness; let's listen to the witness. You've already identified Thursday morning as when we're going to talk about committee business. Any motions dealing with committee business are out of order today. You need 48 hours to put forward a motion, because that is not the order of the day. The order of the day is not committee business; the order of the day is Statistics Canada, whether they like it or not. That's what's printed. That's what's in front of each one of us today.

You're quite right to say that we should proceed with the witness, and so we should. If we're going to break into a battle, I suggest that we go in camera so that we can discuss this properly as a committee. But if we're not going in camera, then we should commence with the witness. We've asked the witness to come. We have a witness in front of us and this is the order of the day. It's the business of the day.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

I'm going to ask for the clerk's opinion because I do not know what the procedure is. I want to remind committee members that there is a witness on today's agenda. He's been waiting for 30 minutes to testify. We still have an hour and a half left, and we can still deal with this issue from all angles. As I said earlier, this isn't a promise, but I don't see anything wrong with setting aside some time on Thursday to debate the committee business in camera. In any event, this is what we would normally do, because we want to plan the next 21 meetings; so we have to have some kind of discussion.

I'm going to ask the clerk's opinion because I'm a bit at a loss as to what the procedure is. We can debate this for an hour and a half, but I think it would be a pity to miss out on hearing from our witness.

[Thomas Mulcair, NDP, Outremont, QC]

He just challenged your authority. You have to call a vote.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

We'll ask the clerk if this proposal is actually in order, because I am not aware of what to do under the circumstances.

Mr. Clerk, the floor is yours.

[The Clerk]

A motion to challenge a ruling of the chair is put automatically, without debate or amendment.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

So, there is no debate.

[Pierre Lemieux, Conservative, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

He's proceeding with the order of the day; that's not a ruling.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Hold on a second, the clerk is trying to explain the procedure. Please, can we avoid multiple discussions? We already have enough work as it is. I'd ask you to show a little discipline.

I'll defer to my clerk's opinion. He's telling me that Mr. Bélanger is challenging the chair's ruling to hear the witness. So we'll put it to a vote. This is not debatable.

Is it the will of members of the committee that the ruling to hear the witness this morning be upheld? Those for? Those against?

(The chair's ruling is overturned)

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

I don't want to have the witness sitting twiddling his thumbs for nothing. I'm prepared to accept your challenge, but I think that the witness wants to get moving.

So what are we doing?

Mr. Nadeau, you have the floor.

[Richard Nadeau, Bloc, Gatineau, QC]

I'll let Mr. Bélanger speak.