Official Languages Committee on May 1st, 2008

[Daniel Lamoureux]

Mr. Gravel, I'd like to reassure you right away regarding the concern you expressed. Seniors cannot live in Nunavut if they are not working: the cost of living is too high. So that is not a problem we have.

[Raymond Gravel, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

That's interesting because Mr. Georges Lalande, from Quebec City, who works with seniors, told me when I met with him that there was a problem in Nunavut surrounding seniors' pensions, given the very high cost of living there. He told me that over 200 seniors were living in Nunavut and that the situation was a real problem.

[Daniel Lamoureux]

The Inuit receive a great deal of financial support from the Government of Nunavut, but white people cannot stay there. A one-bedroom apartment costs between $1,800 and $2,000 per month.

[Denis Perreaux]

When it comes to living conditions for seniors, homes were built all over the place. They're essentially apartment buildings. For instance, recently we managed to create the Centre de santé Saint-Thomas, a place where there is ordinary housing, in other words apartments designed for independent living. Then there are centres that offer a little more support. I don't know what that is called in French, but in English it is referred to as assisted living. There are also homes for people suffering from dementia or who have significant palliative care needs. People who are prepared to move to Edmonton can access those services. But, at the end of the day that is the only way to obtain these types of services in French.

[Lizanne Thorne]

In PEI the situation depends on the area where people are located. People can receive French-language services mainly in community homes. It is quite sad because over 25% of francophones are over 65. So we are working very hard with the provincial government to improve services in the homes.

[Raymond Gravel, Bloc, Repentigny, QC]

It would seem that Saint Thomas Aquinas is quite popular in the region. Ms. Thorne, your organization was founded in 1919. Was it originally sponsored by the Catholic Church?

[Lizanne Thorne]

No, but the goal was nonetheless to train young men, and mainly to see to it that there were francophone priests. They would be sent to Quebec, on a scholarship, to study. At the time, religion was an integral part of the movement.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

We will now move to Mr. Yvon Godin.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

I'd like to welcome our witnesses. We have met them on several occasions. After a while we start recognizing people. Without wanting to discriminate against anyone, I would like to welcome the people from New Brunswick, from back home.

Earlier on we were discussing improvements made in the provinces. We were trying to determine whether there had been an improvement or a deterioration in the situation. Based on your answers it would seem that things are going better. In my opinion, some communities are doing better, but they know these cases were won before the courts. If today there are schools in PEI, it is because of a fight before the courts and not thanks to governments. We should not fooled about that.

Since when have things been changing? Mr. Rodriguez tried to say that it was since 2006, but in actual fact, it has been since people first started to fight and win their cases, like the fight for schools in PEI, and recently, the RCMP issue in New Brunswick. I was listening to Mr. Dion state that if he were to be elected he would double funding for the Court Challenges Program. Well, I have a fear that he may doubly breach legislation and that we may need twice as much funding to win before the courts.

You say that there has been some change, that negotiations or official language programs now fall under the Minister for Canadian Heritage, but really, that they should fall under the Government of Canada so that this responsibility might be borne by all departments. It is very difficult to meet with the minister. In fact, this committee can't even seem to do so. Under these conditions, I can just imagine how communities feel. I would like to hear your opinion on the changes that have taken place with respect to negotiations and agreements with the government.

[Denis Perreaux]

If I understand correctly, you are talking about the fact that there is a minister who is directly responsible for official languages. Our approach to produce results on the ground is very often to take action on a daily basis, with departments that are on site. This is where we see our work bearing fruit.

Politically speaking, I cannot say if this change has made things better or worse in terms of structure. On the ground, to my mind, the problem is that coordination of official languages falls within the jurisdiction of Canadian Heritage, pursuant to the Official Languages Act. The department does not fully carry out its role on the ground. When it comes time to deploy efforts in major areas, the coordination role is not handled well. In my opinion, things have been this way for some time now. The department simply lacks the necessary rigour.

[Lizanne Thorne]

I will give you an example of this. As far as we are concerned, the interdepartmental position has been vacant for two years. Furthermore, we've had experiences with other departments which, through the IPOLC or other programs at Canadian Heritage, could have provided greater support to francophone and Acadian communities. We are told that it is too complicated to deal with Canadian Heritage and that they prefer to simply give us money. This leads one to believe that there is something amiss as regards interdepartmental coordination; the department is willing to give double the amount of money rather than heading to Canadian Heritage to negotiate financing for communities.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

An action plan is going to be unveiled, even though this is not happening quickly. Mr. Lord's recommendation is to increase the budget to $1 billion. The last action plan provided for $810 million over five years. Mr. Lord's recommendation, which is I believe identical to recommendation no. 32 of the Standing Committee on Official Languages, would include assistance to the arts and culture sector. In this case, the amount of $1 billion, as compared to $810 million, does not constitute an increase in the action plan's envelope.

I would like your opinion on the following. Do you believe that more than $1 billion should be invested in the action plan? Would the amount of $1 billion be satisfactory for the communities, since arts and culture would be part and parcel of the action plan? Well, that is what we presume.

[Lizanne Thorne]

Firstly, we have no idea as to how this $1 billion will be distributed. Will a large portion remain within government administration to increase government services? We do not know where this $1 billion will go. When priorities are added, community agreements are only enhanced by a bare minimum. When we increased our number of regions by four and added two provincial groups, there was no increase. There were cutbacks because the needs became greater. I assume that the same would occur with the action plan. The cost of living has greatly increased since the first agreement came into effect. To my mind, the increase will be insufficient if we continue to add priorities that are not focused directly in the areas of intervention.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

As we await the announcement regarding the action plan, are communities affected by this delay?

[Daniel Boucher]

To my mind, there is a significant distinction to be made between the action plan and the agreements. The action plan is not the same as the Canada-community agreements. That is where the problem lies. We must continue operating, in any case. The action plan is of course a significant asset to our communities, but there has been no increase in our financing that would allow us to sustain the action plan. That is where the problem lies.

[Yvon Godin, NDP, Acadie—Bathurst, NB]

Do you mean the previous program?

[Daniel Boucher]

Yes, absolutely.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

Thank you, Mr. Godin.

I now give the floor to Mr. Daniel Petit.

[Daniel Petit, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Thank you.

Thank you for being here today.

I want to raise a more specific issue. I've heard each and every one of your comments. Naturally, your time has been extremely limited, since there are many of you. We had the opportunity to hear from two other witnesses about two weeks ago: one came from the Yukon, and the other from the Northwest Territories I believe, though I am not certain. Those witnesses made a great impression on me because they were making their demands with an extremely positive attitude. God knows that their community is even smaller than some of the communities that are being represented today at this table.

I am new and I'm not too familiar with how things work within the federal government. I imagine that you will reiterate the demands that you are making here today in your respective provinces. There are several levels of government. I imagine that you also have to request funding from your large municipalities. We must certainly not be the only door that you knock on in order to explain the lay of the land.

I'm going to quote Mr. Corbeil from Statistics Canada, who raised something quite particular as he was talking about demographics. Indeed, what we are trying to ultimately do is manage demographics. When you were asked a question on senior citizens, the question was really about demographics. When we talk about youngsters and early childhood, again, we are talking about demographics. Mr. Corbeil said the following:

For francophones living outside Quebec, interprovincial migration is the main factor that directly influences changes within linguistic groups. Between 1996 and 2001, if you will recall, the number of francophones living outside Quebec increased by 10,000; this increase is mostly attributable to the migration of francophones beyond Quebec. Essentially, the majority of these francophones headed to Ontario, Alberta, and British Columbia.

I have some questions concerning Alberta, because people from the Yukon told us that... Your province has an economic impact. In fact, it is an economic engine. Oil reserves have been discovered off the coast of Newfoundland and Labrador. Next year, that province will no longer depend on the federal government and equalization payments, and will become like you. There's going to be an east-west attraction, but the attraction affects certain groups, because French-speaking groups need to earn a living. Not everyone wants to receive social assistance. People need to work. In your province of Alberta, there's a very specific characteristic. I would like to know... As we speak, a number of francophones are moving to Alberta, and I will give you an example...

How much time do I have remaining, Mr. Chairman?

[Pablo Rodriguez, Liberal, Honoré-Mercier, QC]

It's running out.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

You have used up three minutes, you have four minutes remaining, Mr. Petit.

[Daniel Petit, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

The Edmonton School Board has invested significant sums of money for francophones. The Saint-Jean Faculty is affiliated with the University of Edmonton. This has not happened in other provinces, or to a far lesser degree. There are many immigrants that have moved to your province, even to Fort McMurray.

How do you absorb these immigrants? I understand that you receive money, but do the provincial and municipal authorities provide you with assistance? I know that the universities, professors and companies have contributed greatly to making sure that the francophonie remains alive... How are you responding to this new economic dynamic, at a time when people from our province are leaving to move to your province?

[Denis Perreaux]

I would like to clarify something with respect to the French-language school board in Edmonton. At present, we are absorbing newcomers through services. Take our student body, for example. The number of students in schools has tripled over the past 10 years. In fact, it went up by 20% in a single year, between the end of June and the beginning of September in the following year. So you can imagine that if this had happened to a regular school board, the system would have been totally overwhelmed. The system was somewhat overwhelmed, but we were able to recover.

Think about the University of Alberta. These are all areas that are growing very quickly. In the province, we have five employment centres and five reception centres. We are in the process of increasing the number of ACFA regional centres. For many years we had 9 or 10, but now we have 14, along with 6 other points of service we are opening through other means. It is through services that we are developing. The traditional model for groups like ours is to achieve development through community development, cultural development and identity development. In Alberta, we are developing through the provision of services. It is therefore a roundabout way of reaching francophones.

The University of Alberta's Saint-Jean Campus is celebrating its 100^th anniversary this year. The university's name has been translated—it is called both Université de l'Alberta and University of Alberta. That is a small gesture. So it is really through the provision of services that francophone culture is maintained in existence these days. We therefore have to work with the province in particular, but the second stage is achieved by working through municipalities. We are making sustained efforts with the province, and even the Premier of Alberta has stated he would be open to a policy on French-language services for the Government of Alberta as a whole. We are working very hard in that area.

[Daniel Petit, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

[The Chair, Conservative, Steven Blaney]

We will now begin our second round with Mr. Denis Coderre.